Breaking Free From The Sexual Shame of Porn
Let's talk about porn. This week, we are joined by J.K. Emezi, a psychosexual counseling expert, to explore pornography consumption, overcoming addiction and how to build a healthy relationship with pornography.
JK reveals what is happening to your brain on porn and how understanding this unique physiology can lead to addiction and building new habits.
Tune in to learn helpful practices if you are struggling with compulsive behavior related to porn, how to answer the question, “Do I have a problem with porn?” and how to build a healthy relationship with your sexuality free from shame, fear, or addiction. If your porn usage has led you down a path of sexual exploration you aren’t comfortable or proud of, JK has the insight to help you navigate out of this into a state of freedom and peace.
Key Topics:
The process of pornography and its physiological effects.
Navigating the shame associated with porn consumption.
How to identify if you have a problem with porn.
Navigating relapse in the recovery process.
How to support a loved one who is struggling with compulsive porn usage.
Defining a healthy relationship with pornography and sex
Resources:
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/
Connect with JK Emezi
The Porn Reboot Podcast
Podcast Transcript
[00:00:00] Have you ever found yourself struggling with born?
In this episode, we are going to uncover how to have a truly healthy relationship with porn. And I will say this right away. This is not an anti-porn episode. Because believe it or not, I think. It's here to stay. Everyone has access to it. It's all over the place. And sometimes it can be. A positive, healthy, beautiful part of your sex life. And. When I started to really research porn, porn addiction, porn usage, there was one name that kept popping up over and over and over again. And it is J K M S E N J K is a man who has worked with thousands of men over the years. Really helping them to rebuild a healthy relationship with porn and. Ultimately with themselves.
So I'm really excited. This is such as. Touchy topic for people. And I just love that he is so [00:01:00] open to go here and we're going to jam out today. You guys. All about poured. So with that, This episode is sponsored to you by PornHub. No, I'm kidding.
You know, what's up. Let's get after it.
Kirsten Trammell: JK, welcome to the naked connection. I'm so excited to talk to you today all about porn.
JK Emezi: I'm excited to be here as well.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And in knowing that we were going to be talking today, I was looking up some stats that I was finding, and we just thought I would share with the listeners as well that I found that 28, 000 users are watching porn every second, roughly 3, 000 is spent on porn every second. And that one in five mobile searches are for pornography.
So everyone is. been exposed to it at some point, most [00:02:00] likely everyone has opinions about it. And I think the topic of porn is something that a lot of people don't ever want to talk about. And so I love that this is something that you specialize in. I think when people might hear that we're having a conversation today about porn, they might think that you and I might have specific perspectives or beliefs.
About it and I would love to hear first, what is your view on porn? Yeah,
JK Emezi: way to start this. I do a lot of interviews. I don't think anyone has asked me that directly. I think they just assume. So this is refreshing. I'm not anti pornography. And I'm actually starting with that because I think that's the first thought that comes to most people that whether they have, they enjoy it, or they don't, or they have a problem with it, or they're Yeah.
ambivalence towards it. The thought is you must be some sort of You must have something against it. I don't have anything against pornography. I believe that pornography has been around [00:03:00] ever since we were able to draw on cave walls. We were drawing penises and just, we were always doing it and we'll always do it in some capacity.
So I think it's here to stay. My problem is this. I think that Anything that can be viewed and instantaneously deciphered by a person, even if they're uneducated, unable to read, if they're a child, if they don't have their full mental faculties, they can view a video that's easily accessible and instantaneously know what it is.
That is something that needs to be controlled in society, in one way or the other. The issue of control is a conversation for another day. But high speed internet pornography is the thing that isn't controlled. And that's what I have a problem with. High speed internet pornography that is easily accessible, that can be [00:04:00] viewed anonymously.
And and that's what really our society has a problem with right now.
Kirsten Trammell: [00:05:00] thanks for sharing that and I could imagine because there's no there's no barrier to entry It's relatively free and you and can access it at any point in time. So is it's just readily available at all times
JK Emezi: Yeah, that's a big issue with it. When you think about it back in the day, when it came to access, someone would have to get on the bus or find a way to the other side of the tracks or the city part of town and find a VHS or a video store or a magazine and they would have to smuggle it, for lack of another term, all the way over to their home.
And they would have to hide it. It was a physical thing. Now with this little device here the [00:06:00] kids in high school can just pull this up and they're viewing pornography. So the accessibility is one thing and also the novelty factor, right? There's endless novelty. It just doesn't end. You could keep this so much.
I don't know if in the stats, there was stats on how much pornography is actually being produced, but there's a lot of pornography being produced in real time. And so when you combine the hairless monkeys that we are with a dopamine inducing activity, that's endless, you get a problem.
Kirsten Trammell: Okay. One thing that, you know, I think I've had conversations with guys about this already, and I imagine that people listening might be wondering is this question of do I have a problem?
And I wonder if you could help decipher how to know if something is an addiction or if we're healthfully exuding sexual [00:07:00] behavior. Like, how does someone know if they have a problem with porn?
JK Emezi: Good question. I'm not a big fan of the term addict because it brings, it carries just so much, so many meanings with it. Right? So people think it's somebody who's on the street, someone who's constantly making bad decisions, somebody who is looks a certain way, and that's not the case with someone who struggles with a compulsive sexual behavior.
That's the word we prefer to use, compulsivity, which means that despite the fact that it is having a negative impact on some domain of your life, And you want to stop, you cannot stop. A more explicit example would be a person who, a man who has masturbated to the point of sexual satiation, which means that you've released so much prolactin that you can't even get an erection again.
But you s Still view pornography.[00:08:00] And then you ask yourself why am I doing this? Physically, I'm incapable of doing it. I'm actually hurting myself, but I'm still doing it. Why would I do that? Why would I do that three times a day? Why would I induce it when I actually don't feel any urge?
That's the point of compulsivity. And it doesn't matter how often that's happening. What matters is that you go through periods of time, whether they are spaced out by weeks or months, where they are marked instances of compulsivity.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that in that terminology. I know in I'm in grad school right now to be a therapist and they actually have changed in the DSM. They don't use. It's not an addiction anymore. It's a, it's a substance use disorder. So yeah, there, there's a lot of movement away from that because I think to your point, people hear that term in it.
There's all of these misconceptions and assumptions about it. So I appreciate you calling out in it, the compulsive element of [00:09:00] it that comes up.
Maybe someone isn't in a state of the compulsivity where they feel I'm in this place and I'm still doing this, but they're worrying about heading in that direction.
Are there signs or maybe like symptoms that might be coming up for someone if that is the case?
JK Emezi: Yeah. Anytime that they, if they find that they deal with, they experience a lot of anxiety, they experience stress, strong emotions, or a lack of intimacy or loneliness, those four in particular, and if they find in those instances that sexual urges, come up during that, during the time that they're experiencing those, there is a chance that they're dealing with a compulsive behavior.
And those aren't random. Those are the four main reasons why most men end up using pornography compulsively. You could add one more, which I would call [00:10:00] an unresolved issue, which could be some traumatic incident from the past that they are medicating with orgasm. But if they find that It's they're not using any other coping strategy.
Like you could go to the gym, you could go for a walk, you could call a friend when you experience anxiety, right? You could read a book, you could pray, you could meditate, but your go to is instantly pornography. Now it might, when I say instantly, for those of you listening, It doesn't mean that you go straight to pornography, usually there's a pattern because this is a process addiction as opposed to a substance abuse addiction, which simply means that the drug you're seeking is your endogenous are endogenous.
So it's endogenous opiates, the endorphins and dopamine that you're seeking. And so you're not really. You are actually addicted to a certain part of the process. For instance, for someone who's dealing with a pornography addiction, let's say they work from home. They get really stressed out, they have a deadline, and they're not [00:11:00] sure if they can reach it.
Their cortisol level raises up, they're a little bit stressed, and then there's some anxiety. And once that happens, part of their process would be the release of norepinephrine, right? Norepinephrine helps you focus, it's a cousin of adrenaline, but it also comes up when you have a lot of anxiety.
But for them, because norepinephrine is a part of the process that leads to an orgasm, It just hijacks your entire system. So then they're just like, Oh my God, I know F and I'm feeling this. And they're like, Oh, I feel something down there. If they were to describe the feeling themselves. And so they're like, you know what?
I think I'm just, they don't want to be too explicit. So I think I'm just going to go to Instagram and see what's happening. Right, I just need, I need something. So they go to Instagram, but the first thing that they're drawn to is some chick wearing something skimpy in the gym, right? And they go down this rabbit hole.
And less than 5 10 minutes later, they're like, you know what? [00:12:00] Screw it. I'm going to put aside my filter. I'm going to go to that website. And then they start going through whatever ritual or routine they have. Closing the blinds, making sure the door is locked. You know, making sure the FBI agent in your thingy is not watching you.
Put the tape over it. And then you go for it, right? Incognito mode. And then they have at it. But that's how it typically happens.
Kirsten Trammell: Okay. I love the way that you just walked us through that process and explain what's happening physiologically in the brain and in the body to understand why. this behavior can happen and why we would go down that path. I'm curious, do you have any idea what is happening to the brain when we're watching porn?
I
JK Emezi: what's happening to the brain. It's what's happening to the individual's brain. Right? It's not just the brain. I know people love to talk about what's happening to your brain. [00:13:00] The reason I talk about the body and the brain is because in order for us to short circuit the addiction cycle or the compulsive cycle, you do want to be in touch with your physical body as well.
So the first thing that happens before somebody reviews pornography is they see something that is triggering. And that leads to a release of testosterone and norepinephrine. This is for men, for male clients, right? Testosterone is synergistic with dopamine. That's one of the reasons why it's released as well.
And once this process begins and they start releasing norepinephrine, the next thing that happens is they start going through the ritual that I described. It's not, I used to think it was adrenaline and there's a wonderful site for those of you who are really interested in the studies and if you are as well, Kirsten, called Your Brain on Porn by the late Gary Wilson, and there's so many studies and they keep releasing studies every week on how this works.
So the truth [00:14:00] is some of the things I knew about this two years ago, full disclosure. Have changed. I used to think it was all about dopamine, come to find that it really wasn't just about dopamine. But I came to realize that the release of norepinephrine was the main thing that triggered a lot of guys to begin that searching behavior.
Norepinephrine is almost like a videographer. That's following you through the process and it's not just your body, but it's your body and your brain that's remembering So that's what's triggered when you're going through the process Dopamine it builds up the anticipation for the release of all the other endogenous opiates. So it's not just dopamine that's released when you orgasm. There are other endorphins that are being released. But dopamine is released prior to the orgasm as well. And so what a lot of men are actually doing is there is anticipation of actual orgasm.
This is the reason why a lot of men find themselves edging. Because [00:15:00] most men are edging at different points in that process. Some men are edging because they want to prolong the release of dopamine. That is the anticipatory opiate. And some are edging because they want to prolong that feeling of having no epinephrine within them.
So then each time they watch a scene and they're like, okay, I could orgasm to this. They're like no, it's not good enough. I'm going to find something more extreme, something more taboo. And it's quite individualized. So one of the things that we found out at elevated recovery is that certain clients who have ADHD and are prescribed medication, which releases no epinephrine like stratera or for some clients, things like Adderall.
They get a little bit hypersexual, but that's because of the release of norepinephrine and the medication. It's supposed to release norepinephrine so they can focus more, but because they already have a process addiction, it just makes them super hypersexual. So they just feel like, Oh, I'm messed [00:16:00] out and I really want to act out, but that's because that's the process.
So we tell them to get off that medication and get on something else while their brain rewires. Long story short, they edge and they prolong it till. They just don't want to prolong it or they accidentally cross that line, then they ejaculate an orgasm.
Kirsten Trammell: Wow.
This explains a lot and it's so funny when you were saying that I was thinking about how there's research that's come out that shows that similarly when it comes to vacations, people enjoy planning a vacation just as much or more than they do the vacation itself, or that there's these elements of the anticipation of what is to come that our brains and our bodies actually enjoy more or just as much as the event of it in and of itself.
So it's really fascinating to hear it. What is happening in our brains and our bodies in regards to porn and orgasm as well.
JK Emezi: I remember coming across that [00:17:00] fact regarding vacations as well. Also within our program, we also have Structures and systems for men who travel and also when they come back from vacations as well, they are more likely to slip and relapse after a vacation because there's a little bit of a dopamine drop.
Maybe they don't enjoy the vacation as much as they did the anticipation of it, but there's no doubt that during the vacation. Something's happening and right after when they return to their regular environments, they're more likely to slip or relapse because they're still seeking to, they're not, but their baseline has changed.
So they're trying to upregulate to get to that point again. And that's why they often slip or relapse. And then interestingly enough, we had a lot of guys who were sex addicts within the program who they also, they understood certain things like women that they acted out with were more aroused after vacation.
So they were just like, if they were trying to [00:18:00] get with a girl, they knew the best time was just like right after vacation, a few days after, because she was still on that dopamine high. That's not how they described it. That's what, just what I came to understand over time. Silence.
Kirsten Trammell: building of watching one clip and then being like no I'm looking for something more extreme or something more taboo and kind of this cascading event and thinking about habituation and how our bodies just kind of become used to certain things. And I'm curious what has been, what have you found in terms of and I suppose sex as well of like how that kind of can grow and change over time?
JK Emezi: Yeah, so men can get habituated as they keep seeking more and more taboo material. It can go all the way to the point that a man who, who identifies as straight can end up viewing pornography that is not in [00:19:00] line with whatever he feels his sexual orientation is. Now, you know, there are lots of people I've put out videos, I put out a video a while ago, and I'm just going straight to the extreme point.
Guys can start off watching vanilla pornography and one of the easiest way to easiest ways to prove this is to try and define what vanilla pornography actually is and Just by doing a search you'll find that there's actually nothing like vanilla pornography They're not two people like gently making love missionary style.
It just doesn't exist anymore who wants Do you even watch that? Right? So you just don't even see that everything is just straight to something extreme. And that's just a reflection of what the consumer wants because of how they've been conditioned. But the problem with this is that as human beings, our sexuality is.
And I'm not stating this as a fact, just something I would say. Some studies show this, some studies disprove this. My belief is that our sexuality and sexual behavior is on a spectrum. And based on our cultural conditioning, [00:20:00] religious conditioning, our environment, we can stay within that spectrum or we can adjust.
Most people will just stay within that spectrum, especially based on their conditioning. So if they decide they're going to be in a monogamous relationship. With someone, they'll just stay in that line. But when you view pornography and your behavior begins to escalate. As your process changes and as you need more and more of those endogenous opiates like any substance in order to feel that satisfaction, then the type of pornography and your tastes are going to change.
And just because you're viewing pornography doesn't mean that your sexual tastes in real life are not changing. When you are viewing it compulsively. It is going to be reflected in real life. And we have men who have gone all the way to viewing, men who have always identified as straight, to viewing gay pornography viewing pornography that [00:21:00] involves transgender individuals acting out sexually with transgender individuals.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that in terms of human sexual behavior. I tell my clients that if it's in nature, it's natural in terms of sexual behavior. However, what's important when it comes to the client is how they actually feel. If that behavior is not in line with their value system, if it's causing them distress and pain and shame and guilt, then it is a problem for them.
So we don't try to like maybe, and I, the video I was talking about, I was alluding to earlier, it's called Why You Shouldn't Suck a Dick, and it's very popular on YouTube because you know, it brought out a lot of people who wanted to argue that, oh, there was a therapist. Who one of my clients reached out to, and he was addicted to pornography severely, to the point that he wasn't even sure of his sexual orientation, and he [00:22:00] told the therapist that he was feeling very guilty and suicidal because he was viewing gay pornography, and he was addicted to pornography.
My issue is that the therapist never addressed the pornography, the compulsive sexual behavior, but instead just focused on the sexual behavior and the confusion he was having, which in my opinion was not professional. So he told him that he should go out and have that experience. And I've heard that several times and all I know from the clients I work with is that it becomes even more distressing and confusing for them.
There's a term called H O C D, homosexual obsessive compulsive disorder. which men who have OCD are likely to be affected by. And it's devastating for them because of the shame that comes with it and the hopelessness and the constant testing to find out if they're really gay. It destroys them completely and I've seen perfectly well adjusted men who had some problems with pornography speak to the wrong person [00:23:00] and go down that path and have that Triggered and it is a compulsive disorder as well.
So I'm very much for raising an awareness. And I'm appreciative that you brought up the question of the dangers of the escalation of that behavior. It doesn't just go with gay pornography. We have individuals who have gone all the way to picking up different fetishes that are porn induced.
And, of course, all of them are very distressing to them, whether it is cross dressing, whether it is I could go into detail, but there's a lot of stuff. The point remains if you're not enjoying it and it's building up shame and it's causing you a lot of distress, then that's something that has to be addressed.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing all of that. And I do not, as you're saying this, I'm like, I don't think this is necessarily a good comparison, but I was thinking about how even I'll watch a shoot them up movie. And that doesn't [00:24:00] necessarily mean I want to go. Engage in like a high speed car chase with an AK 47 that's just but like I'll watch a movie like that and I don't know if that's similar but I appreciate you creating almost a sense of like understanding as to why this could happen and how to move forward from it.
And you've mentioned a couple of times this element of shame. And, , when I was learning all about you, I saw that there was this line that you said that shame, that porn addiction thrives in shame and secrecy. And , I'm, I would love to touch on this topic because there is so much shame that comes with sex in general and especially with the secrecy and the everything that comes with consuming pornography as well.
And how can we shift away from that or how do we navigate the shame that comes with all of this?
JK Emezi: That's a great question. First of all the [00:25:00] problem with shame is. It's our relationship to it. Some people feel that we shouldn't experience shame. So I've heard people say the problem is the shame, right? The problem with sexual behavior is the shame. But the truth is shame within our species is there for a reason.
We're tribal creatures and shame is so It's a barometer for behavior that could be harmful to you and could be harmful to others potentially anyway, right? And then we have to figure out what works and what doesn't work for us. The issue with shame is that it gives hopelessness a chance to grow.
And once a man gets, a man can experience shame, but not feel hopeless. He can feel shame for the behavior he's engaging in. But There's often cognitive dissonance that comes with that, so he's rationalizing and justifying, but he's going on with his life. He's being functional. He's saying things like everybody does it.
I just did it that one time. It's not that big a [00:26:00] deal. I read a study that it's good for your prostrate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he can keep doing those things. Until he's unable to stop doing it and the shame keeps growing. That's the thing. It grows as his behavior escalates. As he keeps watching more taboo pornography, he starts having those moments after orgasm, the post not clarity as it's called, or he's just Oh my God, I can't believe that I actually orgasm to that.
Who is that person? And let's say it's an individual who. who had experienced a traumatic event, or even an individual who deals with chronic stress, when they try to regulate their nervous system, they're not thinking straight. Literally, they're not thinking straight. And so they engage in whatever behavior is necessary to regulate their nervous system.
And the nervous system doesn't care. It's just like I need to be a certain way. And I don't care what I need to [00:27:00] do or view in order to do that. All of this increases their shame to levels that wouldn't happen if they were regulated. And that leads to hopelessness. The problem with hopelessness is that no man is, most men are not going to seek help when they feel hopeless. They could listen to me. We have, we get 50, 000 or so downloads of our podcast episodes and men don't apply because they listen to it. They just listen to it because they want to feel hope, and it could take them 200 episodes before they feel hope. That's what shame has done to them. That's the actual damage it does.
It's oh, dude, there's no point. Yeah, I hear you. I hear about this guy who healed himself and recovered, but something is inherently wrong with me. Shame builds up the hopelessness, and eventually the hopelessness just leads to them feeling unworthy. And at the end of the day, what they're [00:28:00] really feeling unworthy of is being loved, right?
And once you're at that point, it's, it feels like game over. I want to know those of you who are listening and going dang, that's what I'm dealing with, dude. I just want you to know if you're listening that you are worthy of being loved. I don't care how hopeless you feel. Like I've been like so low that I had to look up to see the bottom.
I've been that low. And I turned out okay. I turned out fine. I still have many faults and many issues and still have learning disabilities, but I'm okay. And you can be okay too.
Kirsten Trammell: That is very, I mean, it's heartbreaking and also heartwarming to hear that you are here to be a voice for men that are in this space and knowing that you have this podcast and all of your platforms to be able to share this piece of hope so that hopefully one day they will be able to reach out for help.
And I wonder for the men that do take that action. Let's say they've been able to pull themselves [00:29:00] just enough out of that hopeless place to get help in whatever way that looks like. What is that pushes that forward?
JK Emezi: Duty, love, or fear. It's one of those three things. Those are one of the three reasons that a man would be propelled forward, and I'll just break them down briefly. Duty could be whatever a man was conditioned to see himself as. I'm supposed to be. a good father, right? I wasn't able to protect this person.
That was what drove it for me. So when I was exposed to pornography I was a latchkey kid. I had two baby sisters and when we came back from school, my role was to make sure the door was locked and my dad or my mom went off to work. And I wouldn't, I was not supposed to let anyone in. So I was about 13 years old and my sisters were, I think, seven and nine.
And we, there was an older teenager, and he was about 17 years old, and I thought he was like the coolest [00:30:00] guy ever, or 16. So he would come over and show me pornography, right? And we'd be locked in my room viewing pornography. But the problem was, I thought that because he lived next door, he was cool, so I would let him let himself out.
And he wasn't letting himself out. I didn't know until my sister slipped a note under my door and said, Hey, when you invite your friend over next time, please walk him out. Because when he leaves you watching whatever you're watching in there, he comes into our room and does stuff to us. And that devastated me because I loved him.
I was afraid to tell my father because I knew he would literally, his life would be over because he would kill that guy. But I felt more than anything that I had failed in my duty as an older brother. And that was one of the, that was one of the moments where I started thinking only that I might have a problem.
And for a lot of men, duty in one form or the other is the thing that propels them. Love is another one. Love for [00:31:00] your partner, realizing that there is betrayal, and actually seeing that, man, I am really hurting this person because of my behavior. It could also be love for yourself. It could be you see yourself falling apart.
You see yourself just not living up to what you could live up to. And sometimes men get glimpses into that. And then the final piece is fear. You've crossed the line. You're just like, you know what, if somebody would have pulled my hard drive. There might be some questions. I don't know if I'm doing something illegal.
I'm starting to act out every time that I get drunk or I get high. I engage in some really strange behavior. My tastes are changing. I was dating this girl and suddenly she says, do you want to do that? That's super weird. And that's not the first time I've heard that I'm afraid of who I'm becoming. So love, duty, or fear.
Kirsten Trammell: Wow. Okay. [00:32:00] And in light of the piece on love, in thinking about relationships, I would love to explore what kind of looking at this from the other side, let's say that someone is in a relationship with someone that is struggling with porn usage. How can This person be of support and how can you navigate a relationship in recovery or when this is going on?
What does that look like?
JK Emezi: The female partner of an addict, the most important thing is to realize that it's not your fault. Like chances are this person came into your life with this behavior already existing and they've exhibited certain traits. over time that made you suspect or maybe you didn't suspect you finally realized, ah, that's why sometimes he was a little bit closed off.
That's why he was a little bit more irritable than I thought. I knew his inability to get it up wasn't just about me or me being unattractive. That's a big one. Just thinking [00:33:00] that Maybe he, he doesn't find me attractive or he doesn't love me or he doesn't care for me. We'll revisit that one in a second.
But I think the most important thing is the process that occurs when a partner finds out. And what she views as being supportive can be very dangerous to her self esteem. Let's say you have a partner and he's been closed off And there's so many things in terms of intimacy you'd like to get from him.
And he sits you down one day and he says, I want to tell you something. He says this is really hard for me to say, but I've been struggling with pornography. Like it's been a problem for me and because of that, I've not been able to get it up. And I know you sometimes hear me get these snide remarks about how you look and your body and that was listening to this guy's podcast and I just realized, wow, porn is doing this to me.
And I really wanted to tell you this. What often [00:34:00] happens if the partner. Doesn't have any of her past trauma triggered, which sometimes happens because she might feel betrayed. You lied to me. Why didn't you tell me this? And I view that as cheating. If that doesn't happen, what's likely to happen is she feels compassion for him.
And she goes wow thank you for sharing this with me. I'm. Like, I didn't know. Why didn't you tell me? What can I do and how can we work through it? And what are you doing? This is actually very dangerous. This is a place to be very careful. And I really want to make a point of it because not enough people do. Your partner has been so closed off and suddenly he's being very vulnerable about something very private. And you may have been longing for this connection for so long that you dive into it. You want to be supportive. You want to be his accountability partner and do everything that you can to help him.
But you have to understand that he's dealing with a compulsive behavior. Which means that the way you expect [00:35:00] this to go is probably not the way you think, unless you've already dealt with a partner, or you're a therapist, or you're involved in social work. You can't be his accountability partner. You can't take any of this personally.
You have to realize that it's a compulsive behavior. And the truth is, it's entirely his responsibility. to deal with that. You can be supportive, but you need to get your own support. You need to get support from a community of people who understand what's happening. You need to get support from people who understand what's happening to him.
And you need to be prepared for the inevitable lying or feeling that he has been lying, which may not come up right away. But eventually now I'm generalizing, but I'm just saying that this is something very common that happens. So when it comes to support, the best way to support your partner would be first to understand the addiction [00:36:00] as best as you can just understand the behavior, go hear what guys have to say about it, and then understand how spouses and partners feel go up online.
There are lots of examples of stories of betrayed spouses and just decide, like you might not even be certain how to feel. Mike, do I, should I feel betrayed? Is this normal? I thought every guy watched it, find out what category you fall into it, into, and then choose, right? And then finally decide how you're going to take care of yourself, because if you're not certain, then the process is going to decide for you.
And I don't know where it's going to drop you. I've had guys go she was totally cool. JK. Like we did the whole disclosure thing and she's whatever it's just porn. I don't care. I'm glad you're seeking help. Two months later, it was like full blown betrayal trauma. And she's like crying, going through his phone, asking him, but Oh my God, but that girl from two years ago where she does this, I was just like she needs to do the work too.[00:37:00]
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. I'm really glad that you shared all of that because I think first for someone to be able to get to a place to share that with their partner is really big and then knowing how to respond. Sometimes I think. We don't know how to navigate tough conversations like this. So that's all super, super helpful.
And in thinking about as someone's in the process of recovery and I know you use the term reboot, not necessarily recovery, but just thinking about looking at relapsing and what kind of, as someone, let's say that they've taken this step, they've gotten out of that hopeless place, they're moving forward, they're taking actions and then they're faced with.
An activation or something that compels them. How do you move forward from that?
JK Emezi: We're very big on. building a philosophy around this. And we start off with something called defining your reboots is, and for those of you who are listening, we just use, you mentioned the reboot [00:38:00] versus recovery thing. We simply use the term reboots because again, same reason we don't use the term addict recovery carries a lot of stigma with it and recovery at the end of the day has this image of.
recovering that which you lost to your compulsive or addictive behavior. There's nothing wrong with that. I think everyone should. But the truth is, sometimes we've lived with certain behaviors for so long. And I think with sexual compulsive behaviors, because of how long we are sexually active in our lives, and how complex that is, and how Intertwined, that is, with culture and the people we meet and our environments.
The person you were at 25 is very different from the person you are at 35 or 45. And because of shame, it takes people a lot longer, and of course, how easy it is to hide a sexually compulsive behavior. It takes people much longer to seek help. You're not recovering stuff from 25 when you're 39, you're a [00:39:00] completely different person.
You probably have to, what will work best for you is likely to hit the reset button and just rebuild everything. And that's a perfectly healthy thing to do, especially when it comes to your values and your standards. But defining your reboot is defining where you would like to be ultimately. And that also includes defining what you do when it comes to slips and relapses, whatever you want to call them.
To answer your question, the principle we have is that relapses are data. They are not an opportunity for you to get emotional, beat yourself up, feel like you lost or you failed. In fact, it's not even a return to the previous behavior. We don't look at any of that. We simply look at the raw data of what actually happened.
What boundary did you cross? What was the self care that you did not engage in? What was the thing that triggered you? Because the truth is, there are only a handful of things that are doing that [00:40:00] repeatedly. And We believe that everyone is the best expert. You are the best expert at yourself. You just haven't been taught how to step out of that emotional state that you get into when you relapse and actually rationally look at what's happening.
And I know for those of you listening, it's yeah, it's easier said than done when I'm triggered. And yes, we know that. But. We also have another principle called working with your brain instead of against your brain, which simply means that when you do things in a repeated way, even if you fail sometimes, your subconscious mind is still keeping track of it.
Subconscious mind begins to realize that, so he just does, he's still relapsing, but it's different. When he's relapsing, this time he's actually sitting down and journaling. He's actually asking himself why he did this. Wow, he's journaling with this part of himself. Now, the relapse still happened, but because you didn't give it any emotional attention, and instead you focused on the [00:41:00] why, your subconscious begins to realize that perhaps that's something important because it takes a little bit of willpower to do that.
A lot of men try to use willpower to stop the relapse. I'm like, that's just going to end in failure. I'd much rather you reserve your willpower for after the relapse, which you usually just what the heck happened? Yeah, if there's any willpower left. Use that to reflect, do an autopsy of the actual relapse and make that a habit.
And it becomes so much easier and quicker to rewire your brain when you do that.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Wow. I love that way of looking at it as a data point. That's phenomenal. . Okay. So One, one kind of last section that I want to dive into with you is actually looking at how can we have a positive or a healthy relationship with porn, or I suppose like with sex in general.
JK Emezi: Yeah, so those are [00:42:00] two different questions. Yeah, those are, yeah.
Kirsten Trammell: just. Yeah.
JK Emezi: are important, Kirsten. With pornography, I don't think anybody should define what a healthy relationship with pornography is for somebody. I think we all get to define what the unhealthy piece is based on our compulsive behavior, if we have any.
But Part of defining your reboot is just rooted in our philosophy that everybody is the best expert at yourself. I'm not the expert, right? My mode of ending my behavior differs slightly from everybody else's. It's just like a similar kind of movie. The genre is the same. I know how this genre works, right?
So that's all I have over another guy. I'm like, hey, it's perfect. This is probably going to happen if you do this. In that [00:43:00] vein, when it comes to your relationship with pornography, I think everybody has to define it for themselves. It's also based on your lifestyle, what you want in your life. It can get very complex as well.
We work with men from all over the world. So what do we do if we work with somebody who comes from a culture where religiously he's very conservative and He doesn't want to have sex until marriage. We work with a lot of men like that. And I'm, and he shows up and he's JK, I don't want to masturbate.
I don't want to view pornography. I don't want to have sex. And I was like, so you want to be repressed? And he's what's that? He's I'm like wait, how old are you? And I said, I'm 22, bro. I'm 25. I'm like, okay, cool. And when do you want to get married and have sex in your ideal world?
Maybe when I'm 35 and he's you know, nothing till then. And I was like, do you think that you're going to turn out to be a normal, healthy, adjusted person? I was like, do [00:44:00] you feel that's normal biologically? And he's no. And I'm like, okay, cool. So don't worry about that. Now we're going to define your reboot as you go.
And as you learn how to control your sexual behavior, you're going to learn to differentiate between your natural sexual urges and things that you, that are medicating. Where you're medicating certain states with that. And from there you can start making peace with that which is natural. Your problem right now is a lot of your behavior is not natural.
And you're not able to make a pact with your culture, or with your God, or whatever that is. Because it's not natural. I was like, when you have control, you're going to have so much less shame. You're going to have a better self image. And you're going to be in a better place if you're a religious person.
To pray and make peace with your sexual behavior, but understand that right now if you're showing up going are you a religious person? What does the Bible say? It's like you unfortunately don't get to [00:45:00] make that decision when you have an out of control behavior. You're not thinking straight. Think straight first, and then guess what?
You won't need to ask me. When you get down on your knees, you'll be able to define what what your relationship with pornography is. And then, obviously, the one with sex is completely different. Just don't make it compulsive, right? Don't be compulsive. But do whatever you want to do as long as it's with a consensual, as long as it's consensual it doesn't bring you shame, you don't feel bad about it, the other person enjoys it, doesn't bring them shame, and they don't feel bad about it, or if it brings them shame and they do like it and it arouses them, that's cool too as long as it's consensual.
I don't care as long as it's not compulsive and it's consensual.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And it sounds almost kind of like when we understand our values and when we understand who we are and that helps drive some of these answers for us
JK Emezi: [00:46:00] Absolutely. That's the three pillars the program is based on it's changing your habits first, which is the realm where a lot of coaches live. There's a lot of material out there on habit change, and it's wonderful. But in order for the habit change to truly last, you do have to make it a part of your lifestyle.
However, our lifestyles change, right? We graduate, we make more money, we move to different places, we get married, get into relationships, have kids. And suddenly we're back to those old behaviors. The thing that needs to change at the end of the day is the self image, right?
And then we need to re examine our principles, and from there we need to develop our values and set our standards around the behaviors that we're going to have. It becomes so much easier to end compulsive behaviors, you're right, when it's done from that place.
Kirsten Trammell: Beautiful. I would love to hear where anyone can find you. I know you mentioned your podcast or if they're interested in receiving support themselves, like where can [00:47:00] everyone connect with you further?
JK Emezi: Absolutely. First of all, you can just Google me. JK, the initials, last name M A Z. I'm the porn guy, I've just Gone with it. That's the only thing you can find about me on the internet. We're called Elevated Recovery, and our flagship program is called Porn Reboots. Now if you go on YouTube and you search for Porn Reboot, you'll find a lot of people ripping me off.
Ignore them. Just search for JKAmazing Porn Reboots. They've hijacked my keyword. Alright, but we own the trademark for that. We are the original Porn Reboot. So you can find me on YouTube. You can find me on Instagram. JKMAZ and Elevated Recovery. Now, the one thing I want to say is that I actually don't want you to put in an application if you need support.
We've been doing this for a long time. We receive about 2, 800 applications a month. So it's not something we need. What we're focused on right now is creating a lot of free resources and communities to support you and to [00:48:00] educate you on the principles. I think it's better to work with us once you've actually.
Incorporated some of these principles. If you heard some of the things I said, and you were just like, man, that's a different way of thinking of it. I like that. I'd like to internalize that. I suggest you try doing that and see if it actually works with you. So if it fits with your value system and you enjoy it.
Then start listening to our material, applying some of the strategies. On my podcast, I've got some really good guided meditations that can help you as well for your behavior, for managing your urges and to help you regulate yourself. A lot of that material is enough to get you to a place where you might even be able to control your behavior on your own.
And if you find that despite all of that, you're still not able to control your behavior, then put in an application. Because the application is more like an interview. It's a test to find out if you already understand some of these principles. Because we'd much rather work with you. [00:49:00] When you've internalized some of them, then teach you all of them from scratch.
That would be quite expensive. So use our free material. We've got a free Facebook group. We've got a 500 episodes of the porn reboot podcast. And on YouTube, we've got about 1500 videos. All of them are giving you tips on how to reboot from your out of control behavior with pornography.
Kirsten Trammell: my goodness, amazing. Thank you for sharing all of that and for all of the information that you've been putting out there. It's, I love the way that you've been able to explain everything and I just really appreciate you coming on the show and talking about such a hard topic for a lot of people. So it's really amazing that you've taken this on and are spearheading the shift and support for everyone out there.
So thank you.
JK Emezi: No, thank you for giving me the opportunity. Not many people talk about this. So I really appreciate the platform. Kristen. Thank you.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode [00:50:00] of The Naked Connection. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss another episode. Trust me on this, your sex life and that special someone in your life will thank you for it. And if you really love the show, please take a moment and leave a five star review or a written review and let me know what you think it would mean so much to me and this show.
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