How To Overcome Sexual Disconnect in Relationships
Have you been struggling to initiate sex with your partner or feel like your connection is fading?
Tune in to connect with Kirsten and men's coach Karen Brody to understand the intricacies of sexual dynamics, the deeper motivations behind intimacy, and the challenges couples face when sex becomes routine.
Learn the significance of open and honest communication, playful experimentation, and addressing power dynamics early on. With actionable advice and insights, discover how you can take proactive steps to lead with confidence, elevate your sexual experiences, and rekindle passion and connection in your intimate relationships.
Key Topics:
02:04 Understanding the Dynamics of Sex in Long-Term Relationships
03:12 The Role of Communication in Maintaining Intimacy
04:10 Redefining Sex and Overcoming Barriers
06:01 The Impact of Shame and Resistance
07:05 Navigating Sexual Resistance and Leadership
11:09 The Deeper Meaning of Sex
13:14 Revitalizing Sexual Purpose
20:58 The Importance of Mutual Desire
23:58 Opening Up About Relationship Challenges
24:40 The Importance of Honest Communication
25:15 Creating a New Kind of Attraction
26:05 Navigating Sexual Honesty
28:57 Practical Tips for Better Intimacy
30:13 Exploring the 'Sex Lab' Concept
32:11 Impact of Sexual Disconnect on Relationships
35:41 Rebuilding Confidence and Leadership
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] When you get into a new relationship, usually the sex starts off pretty great. But then slowly. It can change. It starts happening less. She's no longer initiating. Maybe she's overwhelmed.
Maybe she's stressed. Maybe she's telling you that she needs some space. You don't want to push her. You don't want to pressure that and you think. I need to be a good guy and be sensitive to what she's asking for.
Nobody wants this dynamic. So today, Let's change that.
Welcome back to the naked connection. This is the show that supports the driven men to reach sexual mastery and build deep connections. It's Kiersten your soon to be licensed therapist. And today we are talking all about this sticky dynamic of losing control and losing connection in your relationships.
To have this conversation, I invited author and men's coach Karen Brody onto the show.
Karen works specifically with married men on [00:01:00] loving and leading in their relationships in and out of the bedroom.
I recently started reading her book, open her and found that her description of the way that women love and what women desire from a man to be truly spot on. If there's anyone that can support moving out of this dynamic, understanding it more clearly and finding ways to shift what is unfolding in your sex, your love life. It's her. So let's get some.
Karen Brody, welcome to the Naked Connection. We are so happy to have you here today.
Thank you, Kirsten. It's great to be here.
Just to let everyone know how I found you, I was at a man's house and he had your book on his table and I picked it up and was like, what is this that you're reading?
And I had to get a copy of it myself and dove into it. So it's really fun to be able [00:02:00] to sit down in and connect with you in this moment. Yeah. And I guess to kick things off, I understand that you work really well and do a lot of work with married men specifically and looking at keeping love and sex alive in a long term relationship.
So I know a lot of people struggle with sex in marriages in long term relationships. This might be a very broad question, but just thinking, why does that seem to happen?
think the main reason it happens is that people aren't conscious about their sex lives. So there's an expectation that if they marry, they're going to have great sex. It's like coming into this abundant garden. And if you don't maintain the garden, it ultimately dies. And that's what I noticed happens.
And people, at least the men I work with, they don't talk with their partners about sex. So when things are [00:03:00] coming up, particularly for the woman, they're not made known. And then this giant gulf is created between them. And by the time they start talking about it, oftentimes it's really late.
Yeah. So if someone is in that beginning stages, it sounds like make sure that you are having the conversations early on. But let's say that a couple has gone years, a lot of time has passed. How can they make their gulf, that space between one another smaller?
Well, if we look at the men that I work with, oftentimes there was a lot of shame being passed between the man and the woman, and the man is in a position where he's really uncomfortable trying to lead her in a new direction. He doesn't really know how, and because the woman has brought all kinds of reasons why she doesn't want to be with him which seem valid, you know, changes to her body.
Stress from the kids, you know, a variety of different [00:04:00] things, or she'll say, it's not you, it's me. I'm just not sexual. he doesn't know what to do because he feels like he's up against a wall. And so when I work with men, we have to redefine what sex is in a relationship because if it's being based on the idea that one has to be in the mood to have sex.
It often feels like a giant barrier and there's nowhere to go. So we have to step back and really look at what are you trying to lead here? Where are you coming from? Because that's what's really going to make the difference. Just going at it in the way they've been going at it for 10 or 20 years doesn't work anymore because they've created a dynamic in which.
It just doesn't function. You know, we have to come, we have to rise above what's going on and bring in a new kind of inspiration, a new kind of leadership. So that's where [00:05:00] I go with my clients.
Yeah, that's beautiful. And I actually was kind of flipping through the beginning pages of your book this morning, and I, if I'm going to read something, just a line from it, because it actually really connects with what you're describing here you had said I saw that men were hurting, and what I saw is how often men accepted a sort of second class citizen status in their relationship with women, begging, bargaining, and dealing for love and sex, leaving their women hungering for a man who would love and honor himself.
And When I read that, my heart just broke inside understanding that this happens. And I just from my conversations and working with men as well, that this is so common and exploring the journey of stepping into a different kind of leadership sounds in some ways really challenging, but also I would imagine really [00:06:00] exciting.
It is challenging because the man has to heal the shame that he's taken on. Because of the backlash from women sexually, you know, this women went through this as well, right? And now the shame is being laden on men and men are being called toxic. And so they're really nervous and uncomfortable about what's okay with a woman sexually, where do I lean in?
You know, where do I stand for sex? And there's a sense of, I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to inconvenience her. I don't want to
Mm hmm.
Right? Oftentimes, by the time men come to me, they've been doing this dance with their partner for years, where they've backed up because she said, you know, this is going on for me or that is going on for me.
And so they back up and they think, okay, to be a good man, I need to be [00:07:00] sensitive to this. And I'm just going to wait. I'm going to give her space. And the truth is it never gets better when he takes that position, and it doesn't get better because it doesn't address the real problem, which is that the woman wants a kind of leadership that overcomes.
The shame that might be going on or the disconnect from pleasure or the doubt about the pleasure. So I call it resistance in women and it's not the perfect word, but I think it really describes what goes on for us. I mean, we, we experience more emotionally generally than men and we go through various things and.
we start to mistrust the sex or the pleasure or the connection and we start to pull away and most guys feel like well if I push in those moments I'm violating her in some way.
[00:08:00] Yeah.
And so they back up when what we really need is for them to lean in and to say what's going on and to stand for the sexual connection.
It's, it sounds like such a tricky dance and I've been finding that as well of that piece of wanting to be sensitive and not wanting to just charge forward, but then they're lost in this space of, okay then where do I go from here? What do I do?
Well, I think often what the woman is questioning is what is this about? Whether it's conscious for her or not, she's reached a point where she's questioning the meaning. Maybe And it's, she's not getting sufficient pleasure out of it. Maybe it's not deep enough for her. And when she starts to get into that questioning place, it's not the kind of thing she's comfortable usually confronting the man with.
[00:09:00] Because she's already in a place of doubting whether he can do anything about it because he hasn't
And so she'll just say it's about her, you know, I'm going through changes. I'm just not that turned on, etc, etc. I just need a break. I'm just going through something. And often what is needed is that the two of them can talk about things and push through to a different level sexually. where something new can open up because it's become stale.
Yeah, and it sounds like in, in this scenario that the woman, it's like, Perhaps she doesn't want to hurt his feelings or she feels like, yeah, a sense of hopelessness and that if he could have done something different, he would have. So what's the point? Is that kind of what the thought might be from that side of the dynamic?
Yeah, and then the man not really knowing better [00:10:00] thinks it's about his technique, you know, or that they need to change things up. And that might be the case as well. But oftentimes it's deeper than that. She's starting to feel like I just don't trust this anymore. It's not, it's not bringing me what I hoped that sex would bring me. And so that's why I was saying that we need to elevate where they're coming from, which opens a channel to talk about things in a way that's meaningful. Because if we're just looking at it from the pleasure perspective, it can feel like, well, that ship has sailed. There's nothing more here. You know, we've been together 15 years and we've done everything we could do, this is why we need to come from, altitude with this and see how can we grow in this each of us. and make it something new.[00:11:00]
Yeah. So it sounds like moving beyond just the, like perhaps the physical experience of sex and making it mean something else, be something different, deeper. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah.
Huh. Yeah. Cause I think without that consciousness, ultimately it gets boring.
Yeah.
I mean, if one person has that consciousness and the other doesn't say it's the woman, she can elevate her experience and make it feel like a divine connection. But then she's with a man who is still just driving toward orgasm and pleasure. And so they're going to have a high level connection together.
Yeah. Yeah, this is making me think about what is the motivation to have sex? You know, we kind of go through phases, it seems like in relationships where in the beginning the motivation is that physical [00:12:00] desire to be with that person and to experience that pleasure and then perhaps that shifts into having children and the motivation is to create a family and then you have these children and you're together and you're married and then it's okay, now.
What is the point? What's the motivation? What's the driver for us to have sex now?
Yeah. You bring up a great point. What's our purpose sexually.
And that gets lost.
So yes, what you're saying about people losing their sense of why is really important. And that's what I help men revisit and bring their partners into because when we lose our sense of why it's not something that we want to put front and center.
You know, it gets put on the back burner. We fit it in where we can.
It becomes a box to check. And so that needs to be revitalized or created if it was never created. You know, it's relatively new that we [00:13:00] expect our long term relationships to be sexual. That's a relatively new thing in our history as human beings. And so there's a sort of naive expectation that it just happens.
And I think what a lot of people don't realize is great sex is a conscious choice and it has to be a practice. That a couple takes on together, and it will hit points where it becomes sort of stale, right? And, and we need to find ways, like what's, each person needs to figure out what's the next edge for me? You know, what do I want to experience or embody as a lover? And that's what makes it an upward, upward spiraling, keep getting better and better.
[00:14:00] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just thinking it, let's say that some, someone's listening and they're like, I want more I want my intimacy, my sex life with my partner to be more, but I don't know what that would even mean. What are some options?
Huh. Well, it's really interesting when I ask my clients who are all men, what's the highest reason that you're going after this? Because a lot of them have been in high pursuit for so long in problematic relationships where, where sex has just been really uncomfortable, that they're not even clear why they're going after it. And it, it's really not an easy question for men to answer, but I suggest that, suggest that they sit with it and really look at what is it I'm trying to get at the very deepest level. Yes, there's the pleasure part, but what more is there? And I noticed [00:15:00] when guys sit with that, some really beautiful things come forward. And men aren't often able to express what's underneath the desire for the pleasure when they get pushback from their female partners. So when that that resistance comes up, so does their shame because they feel rejected. And this idea that I should give her space, I should leave her alone for a while. But when a man is clear and he really sits and he delves into the layers of why he's doing this, what does he ultimately want to give at the highest level? Then when he gets the kind of resistance he will get ultimately from any woman, I mean all women offer resistance at some point. He will know better how to navigate that with passion and inspiration because he knows where he comes from. Does that make sense?[00:16:00]
Yeah. It kind of feels like in some ways. It's not about the sex itself. It's about what the sex means
Mm hmm.
And what is, what's living underneath that of maybe the sex is a form of building deeper connection of having a spiritual experience of coming more alive, like all of these different sorts of things.
And so when someone says no to that, it's not just about the physical. enjoyment of an orgasm, it's about taking even more from life experience away and not being able to have that with somebody.
Exactly. And if it's, if it's enshrouded in, in shame, it doesn't occur to us that there's this deeper potential. So the other thing that happens is, and you mentioned this in the beginning when you read that passage. is that because we are cultured with so much shame sexually, [00:17:00] when the man comes up against this resistance from the woman, he will often start to bargain with her because many of us are cultured to believe that that's what we need to do for sex and love.
We need to earn it. And it's not conscious, but as soon as I bring it to men's attention, they realize what they're up to. And this is a sad dynamic because The woman witnesses this and then she believes,
You don't really love me, you just want sex because you'll do anything to get it. And even though I'm not really present with you and I'm just sort of doling it out to you as a duty, you're okay taking it. so when a man gets into that pattern of taking it, and accepting what I call scraps from the woman, you know, she's not fully present, her heart's not open, and she's saying, you [00:18:00] know, just jump on and get it over with, then she hurts herself,
Hurts herself very deeply in doing that, and then she loses respect for him, and she believes she's not loved.
What? Hard cycle to be in. And then that just perpetuates itself because then she wants more distance and more space. Just to understand. It's like the bargaining is doing chores or gifts or all of these, yeah, different things of, Oh, I'm going to take you out to dinner and I'm going to do the laundry for you.
And maybe then you'll want to have sex with me. Yeah.
And I think even worse than that is when the man starts to he doesn't offer his truth anymore, he doesn't stand up, he just sort of goes along with her program because he's so afraid of any sort of tension that it will create an environment where there's less touch and less sex. So he turns his power over to [00:19:00] her. And then at the same time, I noticed that men are saying, they're saying to the woman, what can I do? What can I do to pleasure you? I really want to make this better for you. And the woman's saying, I don't need anything. I'm fine. You know, and she's inviting him to just kind of check the box.
And that goes back to what I was saying in the beginning, is that the man has to rise above that, above that frequency to a place where he's like, I want something so much more with you. Right. You know, this goes also back to a question that you raised a short time ago, which is something like how important is sex in a relationship. Right.
Mhm.
I've done a lot of study of this in coaching for 22 years and what I've come to know is that. Unless both people agree that they're not going to be sexual. It's a problem
Mhm.
because we have an expectation and we have a desire usually, [00:20:00] and the person who's being denied suffers terribly as this does the one denying I've been the one denying I've done it all, you know, that's why I'm able to teach this.
And it's very painful to be the woman who's with a man that she loves, but doesn't want to be with him sexually. And it's this giant elephant in the room that's creating all kinds of pressure between you. It's really extremely uncomfortable. But I think when we answer that question, honestly, and we realize together as a couple that it is really important and we're willing to stretch ourselves, then there are all kinds of possibilities that can come in for us to grow in it.
Even if there have been problems.
Yeah. Yeah. You're bringing up so many good points. And I'm thinking weird, there's, You mentioned this line of saying to [00:21:00] a woman I want so much more with you. And I feel like even just if a man shared that, the power that would have in expressing himself and showing Oh, he doesn't want just sex with me.
He actually wants something that neither of us have ever had together. And I'm the one he wants it with and how powerful that is. Yeah, I'm thinking now about if someone is in this place and they're like, I know that I want more. I know what I want from this relationship, from our sex life, from our intimacy.
How do I go about even starting to make that change? Like we've been set in our ways for so long. I can't just flip a switch all of a sudden, what are the, what would you say is something that someone could start to do to. Move out of this cycle.
You know, I think it can come from the man or the woman, it just needs to come from inspiration. The way [00:22:00] you worded so beautiful. What you had just said, I think the woman could go to the man and say, You know, I've been withholding I've been concerned because of certain feelings that are coming up for me around our sex life, and I really want to talk about it. I want something more with you, and I don't know how we can get there. It can come from her in this way, and it can come from him. And I think if the man's, either if they're willing to face head on what's really going on, to say, look, avoiding each other. We're rarely making love, and when we do, it doesn't feel connected. And it hurts me a lot. And I want something so much more with you. And I want to talk openly and honestly about where we are, no matter how painful. I really want your truth, your absolute truth about what's going on. And I think it's important for the man [00:23:00] specifically to assure the woman that he can handle it because it You know, often when the woman's really honest about what's going on sexually, it can be really painful and devastating for the man
Yeah.
and he could get really defensive or withdraw.
And so I think he wants to prepare himself. Usually this dynamic, not always of course, we know, but usually this dynamic is the woman pulling away because there's some sort of emotional disconnect between them. And so if he can say, look, whatever you can tell me, I can handle it. It may not feel good. It may be difficult, but I invite you and I can handle it.
I think they can have a really powerful conversation that blows things open. And creates a new kind of attraction, fascination. I think it needs to start [00:24:00] there and, know, maybe the woman needs to tell him, the way you touch me isn't pleasurable. Or, you've made love to me when I didn't want to, when I resent you for it. You know, all kinds of things. And depending on their skill level, I mean, they may be able to work it through by talking about it and, and starting to initiate new practices together.
Yeah, what I mean, that sounds like such a rich conversation that if two people are able to sit in that and be honest and understand that it's coming from respect and love, even though it's hard to hear, it could be really helpful. mind blowing to have that. And yeah, and you bring up such an important piece about, I mean, I know from myself and just in knowing so many women and that there [00:25:00] is this fear of, Oh, if I say, I don't like that is going to crush him.
Or like this piece about, I don't know if it's like a societal thing of you shouldn't tell a man that he's bad in bed because that would just, you know, destroy his. Whole ego and sense of being, and yeah. So just finding the strength to be able to be super honest with one another.
It can be hard but powerful.
I think it is, I think it's difficult, especially for us women to be very specific about what we want sexually. Because what most of us want is the man to figure it out, right?
yeah.
We don't want to have to offer instruction, but if you really love somebody, it's it's really an act of love. To be deeply honest with them about what's going on for you and what you need [00:26:00] connected with them and turned on with them. I think it's very mature
And it is going to be a challenge because it shatters a sort of fantasy that you shouldn't have to say anything.
. Yeah.
But men really crave this kind of information from us for us to say. You know, when you, when you hold me that way, it's, it hurts, or when you touch me this way, it feels really good. Just that instruction for them is so useful.
Yeah. And that's even something in , my own personal life experimenting with of like how to give feedback or how to guide in a way that isn't putting somebody down or that actually amplifies the experience together where It's affirming what feels good and redirecting what doesn't and how to communicate that in ways that, yeah, is like sexy [00:27:00] and makes the experience more exciting, which is a little bit challenging, but also it seems like these are the ways that we make our experiences more powerful.
You have to live on these edges and we have to push ourselves to be willing to try something that might fail or willing to say something that might be challenging and just see how it lands.
Exactly. I like this one simple practice. It, it's so simple. It's almost sort of silly, but because it's so silly, it's, it'll make people laugh and make it light. I mean, let's say for example, that you really didn't like the way your partner touched your breasts. You could ask to play a game with him where you could say we're going to do 1 to 10 feet. You know, like you'll massage my breasts and they'll ask me one to ten and and most guys are going to be perfectly fine with this because you'll say, well, that's a five, you know, and you can be playful. And then he says, what would [00:28:00] make it a ten?
Very quickly learns a lot about you, you know, on any part of your body.
Like, let's say, for example, he's always biting your neck, but you don't like it. You could do it on your neck and he'll bite you and you'll say, well, that's a one. And he'll be like, wow, I never knew that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Or he's touching your neck and you say, bite me. That's, and then that's a 10, right?
You get him to do something you've always wanted without saying it. So I think that's a fun way.
Yeah. Yeah. I've had I had a woman on in, a few months ago speaking about couples that have been in sexless marriages for, you know, not having any sex at all for months or years. And one of the things that she described was doing what she called the sex lab, where it was more of an experimental place as opposed to okay, we're going to build in the emotion. It was more like, Oh, let's explore each other's bodies. Does this feel good? Does [00:29:00] this not? The intention wasn't to have an orgasm or reach something if that, if it did, it was great, but it was more, how can we play with each other?
And maybe discover that we actually are really turned on or aroused or enjoy being touched a way that we've never been touched before. But I like this, the bringing in the numbers to me feels like a really great way for both people to understand what actually feels good because saying, Oh, that feels good.
Could mean so many different things and understanding one to 10 on that scale. How does it feel? I like numbers. So I love that. Yeah.
I think it is harder to, if you do the, do you like this or not? It can become sort of awkward to keep saying you don't.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that.
Right.
Yeah.
Where if you give a low score, there's. There's an opportunity to say, well, what would make it a 10?
Do love that idea too, of a lab.
Yeah. [00:30:00] She described it as it takes away some of the pressure. that can come with moving into a whole sexual exchange. Yeah. So there are so many different ways. It sounds like different practices or tools. And I know in your book, you gave some really beautiful practices for men to explore, not only in relationship, but also for themselves.
Because this isn't just, I would imagine, this dynamic, this struggle isn't just confined to what's unfolding in the bedroom. What is, how does, how have you seen this dynamic influence the rest of the relationship?
You mean the sexual dynamic where they're not talking and,
Yeah, and things have just been shut down. She's creating distance. He's wanting more but isn't able to find a way to break through. Maybe he's given up, he feels hopeless. So there's this underlining, we're not really having a rich exchange of making love and being with one another. How [00:31:00] have you seen that kind of cascade into the rest of the relationship?
you know, I'm, I'm working a little bit with women now, but mostly I would say 85 percent with men. And so what I see with the man is
That he loses his vitality
And he starts to feel that life is losing meaning because you have to consider that for him, Making love to his woman is how his heart feels open and how he feels most deeply connected and secure with her. the thing I noticed is the man feels insecure. And he also goes into the world feeling like in some way that he's failing. You know, it's his secret, of course, and he doesn't tell his friends or his colleagues that him and his wife aren't having sex, but it, it weighs heavily on him. And I think for the man, he loses [00:32:00] his his self trust because he's no longer allowed to trust his instinct to touch her or to seduce her. And he's relegated to this position of having to wait, you know, and having to watch a woman where they're always looking for the angle, you know, when, when do all the stars align? Mm hmm. When is that perfect moment, right, where she's going to let me wrap my arms around her or suggest we go to bed. And then a lot of the women because they're experiencing all kinds of doubt around it. Do I ever want to do this again? Can I ever experience pleasure with him? Well, you know, all the questions that are up for them, they'll tell the man, I'll let you know when I'm ready. [00:33:00] I prefer that I decide. And again, because the man feels rejected, he feels shame. He doesn't want to violate her space. He backs up and he waits, and he thinks, Okay, this is going to work, right?
She's just going to let me know. But then she only lets him know now and again, because she doesn't honestly want to lead things. Most women don't. Now, there are women who have been sexually abused who want to lead things because it feels safer. But most women don't want to lead, even though they say they will. And so then he's just orbiting around her all the time, kind of waiting, like, when is she going to say yes? And it makes him feel adequate, you know, not masculine. And so one of the things I always tell men that I coach is we have to turn that around to where you're leading. And [00:34:00] there are subtle ways to do that.
Is that, is that something that you have experienced?
Yeah, actually there's a couple of clients that I'm working with that, that are in a very similar dynamics and it's, they've been told, Oh if I want us to have sex, I'll let you know. And so they're just stuck. It's like sitting on their own little ice patch in the ocean, waiting to be called upon and, you know, exploring ways to build that sense of confidence back.
I found to be really important, but I'm really wondering for you mentioned this piece about subtly leading. What are ways that, that a man if he's in this dynamic could start to shift that? Because I think it's so true that a woman might say, Oh, I'll let you know when I'm ready. But Majority of us wanna be led, and that is where we feel safe and held and can actually then surrender and [00:35:00] open our hearts and feel available.
Yeah. What are those subtle, nuanced ways of flipping that?
This is a really difficult, difficult thing to change because if the woman's at a place where she said that. And he does approach her. She'll say, what are you doing? You know, we have an agreement and that agreement is that I'll let you know. And then he ends up creating more issues with her. So, like I was saying in the beginning, he has to get her to a different place where this agreement no longer exists with her. Because if he agrees to it. Okay, I'll wait. And then he violates that. She'll say, Well, now I can't trust you even more. You know, you're not listening to what I need. So he at some point has to say, I can't do that agreement with you because I'm a man. And because [00:36:00] I need to be able to act on my desire for you. We women want to be desired.
And when I coach a man, I have very clever ways of helping him communicate from a powerful place with her that shifts this dynamic. As long as he's in this agreement with her that she will initiate, it leads into a sexual desert. You know, it just keeps getting worse and worse because the woman's like, I feel all this pressure.
And the reason she feels the pressure is she's the leader.
She doesn't like being the leader because then she feels like, well, he's just waiting around for me to say yes. So he needs to say, this agreement doesn't work and here are the reasons. And here's what I really want with you. This doesn't work. But it needs to come from a [00:37:00] place of love when men are just speaking the language of sex with women, they can easily be dismissive. Like, of course you want more sex. You know, and and women can be very shaming of men
And a man needs to be able to stand up to that and say, I don't tolerate that. That's not me. I don't want to be described in that way, you know, and he needs to be able to say this is where I really come from. Do you want this with me?
Yeah. Yeah. I, and basically, communicating this agreement doesn't work for me. This is what I really want. Coming from a place of love and starting to open up more, it sounds like back and forth potential for moments of building intimacy together and not just [00:38:00] orbiting around her waiting for her to finally say, okay, we can do it.
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
sometimes it needs to start just with touching, because that's been sort of thrown away, because the woman will say, you know, don't touch me once they get into that dynamic, because she feels like it's leading to something. So she's missing out on the healthy nature of being touched, and he's missing out on that.
So So I will admit that trying to turn all this around is like trying to turn around, you know, like an ocean liner.
Yeah.
It's, it's a big thing because you've created these unspoken agreements that have been rooting over years. And when a man goes to lead something different, the woman's going to resist. She's going to go into extreme resistance because she's like, [00:39:00] where is this coming from? We have an agreement in her mind, like we're getting it done, you know, and that's good enough. There are other people who have worse sex lives than we do, you know, things like that. And and a man really needs to stand in his strength.
And, and that's what I coach men to do. The best possible scenario, of course, is you start out really conscious. You start out talking about sex. And you never let it go unconscious. And when a woman goes into resistance, you're there, you know, and you're saying to her, tell me what's going on, and you're insisting in the right way.
Yeah. Because it seems like as soon as, and I have fallen into this trap more times than I would like as soon as that, I don't want to say power, but as soon as yeah, some of this [00:40:00] power and control falls into my lap and they don't say anything or address it, that's when it feels like the cycle begins and it becomes impossible to get out of.
In a new relationship, like calling it out right away, being really aware and conscious of what's unfolding and naming it as it's happening.
Exactly. Yeah, I love what you said about that, that if the man doesn't say anything, it like drops in your lap, and then you don't know what to do with it. You want him to do something. You may not know that, but you do, you know. You want him to get in there with you and say, what's going on? You know, I want to connect with you.
What's happening and insist that you tell him. And if it's early enough on, it's not that big of a deal because maybe it's any more tenderness from you or, you know, you often want to make love when we're not [00:41:00] emotionally connected and, and that blows things open in a beautiful way. And then you feel closer and then you just keep doing that every time you feel resistance.
And that creates a really deep trust with him. You feel like I can bring up anything, even in the middle of making love. I could bring something up.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
sounds beautiful.
Yeah.
Amazing. I know that this dynamic is unfortunately so common and in something that really seems to happen in a lot of longterm relationships. So it's beautiful that you are doing this work, supporting men and even some women to get, to turn that ocean liner around and move back into deeper, more beautiful.
Dynamics and intimacy and lovemaking. So I really appreciate you coming on the [00:42:00] show and being willing to share such beautiful insight. You, I mean, I'm like, everyone should read this book. It's really filled with a lot of wisdom. And I know you've have many lived experiences that you share from as well, which makes it feel so clear and understandable.
So I really appreciate it. All of your work. And I know everyone listening should find out more information about what you do. Is there any place that they can go to, to connect with you more?
You know, I have a free book called reignite her passion, and it's centered on this topic that we're talking about. And in it, I talk about the three kind of deadly behaviors that men engage in unconsciously that create this dynamic on their side of it. Of course, it takes a woman too. Right. Yeah. How you can turn it around and a lot of guys tell me that little book has changed their lives.
It's about 22 pages and you can get it on at my website, Karen [00:43:00] Brody, coaching. com.
Perfect. I'm like, I'll have to go read that. As well. Yeah. And and I thank you so much for being here, Karen. And it's been such a joy. We'll make sure that link is in the show notes. Everyone can check that book out and turn this passion around in their lives. Yeah. So thank
Thanks for having me. Enjoyed it.