Do You Really Need Closure Now From Your Past Relationship?
What is closure going to bring you as you move forward?
This week, connect with Billy Proceda, a man who sat down with all of his exes to understand why things didn’t work out, what he should do now, and whether there is still something there between them. If you still want closure from an ex or are wondering how not to repeat the same mistakes in your next relationships, this episode is for you.
Billy is a stand-up comedian, writer, and podcaster based in New York City. He takes a unique approach to understanding relationships, exploring sex, and dating today. He brings a hilarious, curious, and sex-positive lens to all things love and sex. Let's laugh, let's love, and let's get some!
Key Topics:
Exploring past relationships and dating challenges.
Reconnecting with exes and seeking closure from a past relationship.
How to explore new sexual experiences.
Use Reddit, Craigslist, and online platforms to explore your sexual desires.
The art of approaching women in dating.
Connect with Billy Proceda
https://www.instagram.com/billyisprocida/?hl=en
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] We all have that ex that we are still a little bit curious about. Right. That person that we still don't fully understand why the relationship failed, or maybe we still go down that. What if spiral on a quiet night alone, and most of us still want some. Form of closure. And it's natural to want the past to be tied up in a nice, beautiful bow. But. It's not really necessary. Is closure even possible. And if you get that closure, what is it actually bringing to you?
Well, in this episode, we are going to explore the process of getting closure from an ex moving forward, to be able to meet someone new and. Explore your sexual desires along the way.
While this might sound like a challenging or a heavy topic, [00:01:00] anything with an X can feel a little heavy sometimes, but I have a professional New York city-based comedian, Billy Proceda here to share his personal experiences on getting closure. Moving on. And having an amazing time doing it.
This is a playful conversation. We are here to laugh, to learn and to have a hell. Have a lot of fun today. You guys, we're here to get some. [00:02:00]
Welcome back to the naked connection. This is the show that supports driven men to build deeper connections and have better communication and sex. What's up, you guys, it's Kiersten here and I am on a mission to help you. Have incredible sex and epic connections.
Billy. Proceda welcome. To the naked connection. So stoked to have you here.
Billy Procida: Thanks for having me.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. And for everyone that's here, you are the host of the Manwhore podcast, I understand and correct me if I'm wrong, you started this podcast on the premise of interviewing.
women that you had dated in the past. And I'm curious, what was that like? I mean, It takes a lot of guts to be able to, to do that, to reach out to your exes or your past lovers and, and ask them [00:03:00] questions about their experience with you. So how did you land there? Yeah.
Billy Procida: the microphones, that's a difficult thing. You reach out for closure. That's already scary. And now I'm like I would love to put this out there for thousands and thousands of people. yeah, no, it was it was a weird I had this problem in my early twenties in college where I I was very successful, like hooking up with women, but I couldn't get women to Date me seriously, be a girlfriend, like anytime I wanted to escalate the relationship she always told me that she wanted to keep a super casual which is like kind of a Traditionally speaking like a gender role reversal, right?
We're taught that dudes just want to get it in don't want commitment and women are looking for and I was having I was having the flipped problem and so when it happened for the umpteenth time I was like Let's do this podcast. Let's, you know, let's ask them, why didn't we work out? And so I started reaching out to people and meeting up again, [00:04:00] sometimes months or years later and, and talking about sex, dating, love and us.
And it's it was, it's been fun at times enlightening. And yeah, it's been a good time. I'm getting ready to do another round of X's actually. Next month, I got to reach out to one more and make sure that she's on board. And then I, I'm going to do another string of those.
Kirsten Trammell: Wow. Yeah, that's fascinating. And it's so true. There is such a reversal in the sense of thinking that oftentimes we think women are the ones that are like, why isn't anyone committing to me? And so you having that experience as well and being able to share that for all the guys out there that experience that is, is interesting to have that be present.
Billy Procida: Yeah. I would get guys who would reach out. I mean, like my initial, when I initially launched, women reached out cause they said, yeah, a guy who, you know, who gets that, but I would get dudes who reached out to say, wow, I've had that experience, but I thought I was like weird cause I'm the [00:05:00] guy. And, and it just goes to show that like a lot of this stuff, it's not really gendered until we all make it gendered.
You know? It's you know, guys not speaking out about that happening to them just cause they've been, we've all been trained that men are supposed to be these, you know, sexual prowlers and off getting in. They're like, I just want some love. And then everyone goes gay. And we're like, what? You know, so it's a, it goes to show like we're all experiencing the same things.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. And what did you find? What was the biggest thing that you found through having those conversations with your, your exes?
Billy Procida: Sometimes I. I would, this process, because I've been doing this almost 10 years, the process reminds you that we experience things very differently sometimes, and that we are all unreliable narrators, and my memory of the same event is different than your memory of that same event, and neither may not be necessarily lying.
It's just that's how we remember, especially if we have a lot of [00:06:00] affectional memory to it, right? If we're remembering how we were feeling during something that sometimes the facts don't even really, they're not as clear as how we felt. And then we almost make the facts of a memory match whatever we are, our emotional memory of that experiences.
So you know, I remember the second recording I did you know, I asked something about the boyfriend at the time because my. My memory of how things ended was, Oh, I started dating someone seriously. So I can't hook up with you anymore. And she was like, Oh no, I didn't start dating him until months after, like I stopped sleeping with you.
Cause I wanted to stop sleeping with you. You
Kirsten Trammell: Interesting.
Billy Procida: know? So you hear that three years later, two years later is You know, it just reminds you like, wow oh, that's, you can't trust your own memory completely. There's, there's always another side to it.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Billy Procida: it, it definitely gives you also some humility when you go through that.
Cause then you, then in my more present situations, I do my best to, you know, even if I'm really firm about what I remember happened, I have to kind of always [00:07:00] remember I may not completely remember.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm.
Billy Procida: And that allows me to enter a conversation, I think, a little better at times.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Man, this is making me think if I reached out to my exes to have conversations about why that would just, I could imagine maybe perhaps it brings closure, but also like just reopening everything up again and thinking about people wanting to get that closure. Did you find that? Or do you think that that comes from a different place?
Mm hmm. Mm
Billy Procida: closure part? I don't know, it just, it's tended to, it differs like episode to episode, recording to recording. Sometimes, I've met up with exes and we didn't talk about us at all. And we just talked about sex, dating, gender, and love, and just how, you know, maybe something was going on with them that was really captivating.
And sometimes all we do is talk about us, and sometimes it's a mixture. I don't know. Closure's, closure's tricky, because don't, I don't tend to seek it out too much. I'm [00:08:00] always focused on Recovering from the breakup. Sometimes I think what am I going to do with that closure?
What am I going to learn here from getting closure that's going to be helpful? Is it just going to make me wallow longer? As opposed to these I don't, I don't view the podcast as me finding closure. I, I, I view it as a very fun, sometimes silly premise. To reconnect with people from my past.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And I would be curious to know, like, when you have those reconnecting moments, is there ever any jealousy that's present when they're sharing? Like I could see how people would think oh, I'm hearing about this other, like this person I was intimate with and how they're now having these sexual experiences or they've found love or whatever it is.
Does that come up for you? And how do you manage that if it does?
Billy Procida: You know what, jealousy is a secondary emotion. So I, you know, as a non monogamous person, I have a decent idea of how to handle and understand when I feel jealous. And so typically if I feel jealous, I'm thinking, okay why am I feeling [00:09:00] jealous and why I'm feeling jealous is not because they're doing blank it's because I'm feeling.
Something else. Maybe it's cause I'm not getting what they have, or maybe I'm feeling lonely or if I'm with somebody and I'm feeling jealous that they have sex with somebody else, if I'm not feeling good about my body, if I'm not feeling sexy, I feel jealous for different reasons when I do feel jealous, but you know, I just handle it and I just talk to myself.
I talk myself through that. through that process. I definitely have at times. I mean, these are people I've had connection with. I've had chemistry with them at some point in time that we hooked up or even dated. So sometimes when we reconnect, like that chemistry is still there. And then sometimes you go off.
I mean, sometimes we've hooked up after recording or decide to like, try dating again. That's definitely happened. And then sometimes, so then sometimes like a year later, it's they come back on the show to say like, Why it still didn't work out, you know, uh, but, but then I [00:10:00] mean, I had a recording last year where. I hadn't seen this woman in seven years and everything snapped right back into place. It, I, this, and we were talking about how she was going through a really tough, difficult breakup. And so not necessarily jealousy, but she was discussing a lot of how she's trying to go through this solo period and, and learn how to be alone for a little bit and, and just stay out of dating for, you know, while she does her own inner work.
But the entire time we're talking, we are riffing, we're laughing, weird, We pick its own. I'm reminded of all the reasons why I fell for this woman seven years ago, right? I was like, Oh my God, not only is she a babe, but she's hilarious. She's smart. She's driven. She's successful. And I'm like, Oh man, like I want to date now.
And so sometimes that can pop up too. Yeah. It's interesting. It's you know, like just think about, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I also think there's something about like recording. It keeps us honest because [00:11:00] Like we're more accountable to the words now that there's a microphone around, as opposed to if you met for coffee, when next to get closure to rehash things, you know, people, you too can leave that conversation and then say it went down.
However you say it went down, selective memory, all that stuff. When the microphones are on, I mean, those micro, Whatever you said is what you said. Like we can play this back.
Kirsten Trammell: So even if someone doesn't have a podcast, it's bring your microphones, chat it up and
Billy Procida: Yeah. Let them know for legal purposes that you are recording the conversation. And then, and then go into it.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, that's so fascinating. I find I have a couple of people from my past where I'm like, I, I know that the moment we would engage with one another it would just be what it was when we were together, when we were dating. And so I'm like, I got to stay away from you because I know that that doesn't work.
And I don't want to like, reopen that door [00:12:00] again, or feel
Billy Procida: So that's, that's bad because you're worried, Oh, we're going to click again. I'm going to want to date again. Or because y'all would fight and you're worried, you're just going to fight again.
Kirsten Trammell: Like the, yeah. Oh, we would click and be like, Oh, this is great. This feels so good. Let's go down that tunnel again when we don't want to go down that tunnel again, you
Billy Procida: all about going back down the tunnel. I'm all about I'm a gambler. Let's Let's give it another shot. Hey, you're different. I'm different. Let's be different together
Kirsten Trammell: Mm.
Billy Procida: Yeah. But that's also why like I ended up getting in my relationships, we usually have you know, two, three, four breakups before it finally clicks, you know, a family of origin and everything.
My parents split five times before they actually got divorced.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. I got to play that out. See how it see how it lands.
Billy Procida: I don't know, there's an element of I don't know, I don't want to give up on this too soon, or if fate brings us back together sometime later, if it feels like something's there, it's definitely something I want to explore. But I'm also a [00:13:00] hopeless romantic, so I watched too many movies growing up.
Kirsten Trammell: I know that you have shared quite a bit about all of your experiences sexually throughout the world. And you know, I'm just thinking if there's someone, let's say a guy's listening and he wants to try something new with somebody or to try something just in general, how would you recommend that they go about doing that?
Billy Procida: Do it. I mean, the, the, the, how to do it depends on what it is. But I'm a big fan of just go do it. I mean, I was very sexually adventurous in college and in my early twenties on Craigslist and try a lot of fun, interesting things. Cause I, I decided at 19, I'm going to find out what I'm into and not into by doing. go out there. And so I answered a lot of interesting ads on yeah, Craigslist and Reddit. Obviously Craigslist you can't do now, but Reddit's still like a healthy atmosphere for that. And you know, that's where I experimented with groups and with other people and watching [00:14:00] a couple and a lot of stuff.
I'm a big fan of just doing it. But also while doing it, like remembering the humanity of the, if it involves other people, remember that they are humans involved in this experience that you really, really, really want. And I think we have to remember men in particular need to be reminded of this, that just because you really, really want something doesn't mean no one else matters.
You can prioritize that you want something and still also, you know, place other people's safety boundaries. Desires in, in the list of priorities just because you really want, it doesn't mean they don't matter is something I just a little footnote. I would add just to keep in mind before you go off and say I really want to do this.
And you know, you treat some people poorly in the process of getting it.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so interesting that Craigslist used to be such a place for sexual exploration and So you're saying like now, because I, [00:15:00] I'm curious is Reddit like the place to go if someone's wanting something from your experience, or?
Billy Procida: I don't use FetLife, but Craigslist or FetLife probably good places to still arrange very specific scenes, particularly group scenes or kinky scenes if you want them. Those are definitely good, like virtual places to go. You can obviously go to like in person stuff. You can go to, if you're curious about BDSM and kink, you can go to a munch.
You go to some sort of sex positive mixer event where you can meet like minded people. Of course there's like play parties, but you know, you're going to, your mileage may vary. Depending where you are, the club that you go to or whatnot but Reddit is still a good place for that, you know, hyper specific subreddits. They've got subreddits for like location. So N Y R for R. LA R4R, Austin R4R, whatever. You've got things that are based on specific sex acts.
Kirsten Trammell: So there's a lot of places where you can find whatever you're looking for, is what it sounds like.
Billy Procida: Yeah. And then if you're just looking to try new things, one on one with [00:16:00] someone, they may not even be wild, crazy, and kinky things. It might be like getting a little rougher. It might be anal sex. It might be anal sex on you, fella. It might be there's a lot, right? So there it's a matter of educating yourself, learn whatever it is.
You need to learn to do the thing. And then again, Do the thing. If it requires another person at some point, express that you're interested in that. but you know, I think a lot of people, something that makes me sad is a lot of people, they talk about their fantasies like you can't make it happen.
And I'm, because for them, they're like, Oh no, that only lives in porn. Gang bangs. You only do that in porn. I would love to do one, but you know, you can't really, yes, you can really do it. There are ways to safely and responsibly make that happen. You just have to do it in a certain way.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder sometimes I think sometimes people have fantasies because they want to keep them as a [00:17:00] fantasy
Billy Procida: That's definitely, there's definitely an argument for that. Yeah, there's definitely an argument for that and I don't know that it's really been something for me. I don't think most of my fans see I'm the type of person where, you know, expect I'm big on expectation setting. So if I've made an expectation that I want something fuck, now I want it.
So now I'm going to want to go do it, or at least try it to see if it's actually something I like. Cause if it's not something I love then, but but still hot in my head, I can just go back to jerking off about it later. But I also understand that some people who they don't want to, they don't want to go wrong and that ruins the fantasy forever.
I get that.
Kirsten Trammell: Ah, that's a good point. Like they'd rather just let it live in the mind because then it could never go wrong if it's just something that you think about.
Billy Procida: Yeah. I mean, again, that's not how I approach fantasy, but there's definitely people who do, and that's fine and valid and all that me, I want to, I want to find out. I want to fuck around.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:00] Yeah. No, I think that that's a really. a very alive way to explore sexuality and to live in the world.
Billy Procida: Yeah. Yeah,
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. And yeah, I'm just thinking about living out fantasies. Have there ever been any instances where you found something? was like better than you thought it could be or was totally not what you wanted and that landed differently for you.
Billy Procida: sure. Sure. I although I lean submissive. Or I'm switchy, whatever. I am not like a BDSM sub. Actually, is that when I mentioned that the second recording I did where she was like, Oh, I just didn't want to fuck you anymore. That was like my first foray into BDSM with this woman, Jay, and she. You know, the first time we hooked up, I remember I'm blindfolded, and I'm kneeling on her wood floor, and she's being a dom and saying things, or whatever, [00:19:00] and I didn't complain, but she did say, Oh, does it want a pillow to kneel on for, for your knees?
Kirsten Trammell: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Billy Procida: I'm like she asked. So yeah, yes, I will take it. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'll take a pillow. And then there were other things like that where it just eventually was like, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to answer honestly. So apparently I'm like, I'm like a bad sub, like I can't take a lot of pain.
So it's like maybe you're spanking trying to get up to an eight. But like I, I call yellow at five. And it's I'm just not good at being a sub and that's fine. And then I learned that I didn't need to do that again. Many years later, I explored it once more with a woman the concept of, you know, like masochism with with some pain.
Yeah, it wasn't for me again either. You know, she, I was blindfolded and she like used a lot of nipple clamps on me. And these were like patented. magnetized nipple clamps. So they're like extra clampy cause they're fucking magnets. And [00:20:00] yeah, no, wasn't for me. The only reason I let her keep doing it, she said, I will suck your dick for as long as you have the metal clamps on.
But if I need to take them off, then I will stop sucking your dick. So I was like, I will see how long I can endure this pain. That's like a little bit soft and I'd be like, you can put the clams back on, put the clams back on. I just do the thing. Yeah. But, but the, the pain was not hot. The pain was not like an erotic thing.
But again, I learned by doing, and now I know that like my submission is more like service. I want to be a good boy. I want to do good things for you. I want to do things well. I don't want to be punished, but if I don't do a good job, I also have a fucked up sense of justice. So I'm like if I didn't do a good job, I deserve to be punished.
I don't like to be punished. But if I didn't do a good job, I should be punished, which will then make me do better.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm. . Yeah. But it, it's you know these things about yourself because you've gone through the process of trying it, and it's, it reminds me of you know, the saying to have one real, to know [00:21:00] one religion is to have no religion. And it, it's, it makes me think of if you aren't exploring what's possible for you, how could you ever know what you like or what you don't like, or what you're good at or what, what you're not good at.
Billy Procida: Yeah. I mean, again, some people don't want to explore sex is scary. Sex is shameful to some people. For me, I've always felt like I was going to learn by doing so. I did.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And, and being beautifully exploratory and open. How did you get to this point? Has that just always how you've been? Or was that younger life experiences? What do you think has led you to this point? Yeah,
Billy Procida: been a very curious minded person and again, a little more action oriented. I was in a monogamous long distance relationship my freshman year of college. Did that for yeah, like 14 months. great introduction to dating and introduction to sex.
She was the second person I had slept with. And [00:22:00] but then like when we broke up for sophomore year, cause we were at different schools and all that, I was like, I'm going to go figure things out because I had already poked 18, I have new bigger access to pornography, right? I went to a boarding school.
We didn't have internet in the, in your bedroom and we didn't have smartphones back then. So you didn't, you didn't get to like really explore around sexually online at that school too much. Like I, I'm able to see things, explore things. I'm looking around on Craigslist. I'm not doing stuff for meeting up with people, but I'm like poking around to see what's out there.
And yeah, so when I became single, I was like, I'm going to, I want to go find some stuff out. I want to go do it. Especially because I went to college in New York city. So there was just like, It was all around me. It was all here. So I took full advantage of the city I was in. Yeah.
Kirsten Trammell: And where, where would you say you are now in I don't want to say journey, but in yeah, in all of this, where, where are you living right now?
Billy Procida: I'm tired.
Kirsten Trammell: [00:23:00] Honest. Yeah.
Billy Procida: Tired. I want someone to hold and love and care for me. I went through a big breakup a couple years ago and I've had a long recovery from it. Don't know if I'm still on recovery or not. But I you know, I was sexual for a good ten years. Chunk of time, maybe six ish months after the breakup and then kind of started to taper off. And last year I was like a very, I just pulled back a lot.
Didn't really want to connect with people. I started smoking a lot of pot, which makes me really not want to connect to people let alone date. Or if even really fuck the way I fuck is usually a more, is connected. I'm not looking for someone to come inside of, I'm looking for someone to have an experience with.
And so when you're stoned all the time, recovering from sadness, you don't really need to connect with anyone. The pot makes you say it. I don't need anything. I, I might [00:24:00] want to come, but I can take care of that here in this room. I'm good. And so in, in getting off the pot a bit, I'm, I'm starting to be ready to like date again, gone on a couple of like.
Dates, like actual dates, not like interviews to fuck each other, like dates. And that's a little bit more of the speed I'm at right now, where I haven't been going to sex parties solo lately. I, cause I want to go to the sex party with someone I want. I want to go with someone I love to a fuck party.
I I'm. Now I was excited to go to the fuck party by myself right now. So I think that's kind of where I'm at.
Kirsten Trammell: I appreciate you sharing that because I think. You mentioned it's been a while since you've been in this going through the breakup process, and I feel like people always think that they have to move on so quickly, and it's totally, I think, okay to move through things at the pace that you move through things,
Billy Procida: yeah, but it's very inconvenient for me. It's very sexually inconvenient. Like I've never turned down sex like I had last year [00:25:00] because not that I'm some sort of fucking whatever, but just, I like really pulled I really didn't want to do stuff with people, you know, I was like, and it's, but I also did the first 15 years of My sexually active life was very sexual.
Like I say, I sexually pulled back. And then at the end of the year, I was like, kind of like curious and tried to, I was doing like a year in review posts on my Patrion. And so I was like like what sex did I have? And I've said, okay. You know, it's compared to your normal person. It's still pretty active.
But for me, it felt straight. Like I haven't fucked somebody. Since New Year's morning. And for me, that feels like a long time. I have learned that for others, two months is a totally normal amount of time.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm.
Billy Procida: But for me, it feels weird to not be like this, like sexual being, because I'm my heart is missing something right now.
You know, I'm trying to lean towards that. I would love to like I want to want to fuck more. [00:26:00] I wish I wanted to fuck more, but I don't. So I'm just trying to like. Be okay with that. And when it comes back, great. Awesome. I know how to do that.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah You're making me think of something. I know a handful of people that are kind of in this Space of being like I I'm not in a place where I want to be in a committed relationship But I also don't want to go out and just like randomly hook up with people Because I you're saying it's inconvenient, I I'm not in a place where I want to do that, and so it's inconvenient because now I'm, in this middle zone, and, you know, I know some guys that, they're like, I am just such a lover, and when I'm with someone, I want to treat them well, and also at the same time I don't want to commit to them, but I don't want to just fuck them, so it's like, where do
Billy Procida: I, I mean, I would be pushing on these guys a little bit of like, why don't you want to commit? Cause I'm, I want to commit, I want to commit a relationship. I'm, I'm not like pretending like I want to have that. Like I [00:27:00] want, I want to be in a, I want to love again. And I want to be loved again.
I'm not pretending. I don't the guy who says I want to date without the commitment sounds, Kind of pussy foot in a bit. I kind of want to explore why, why don't you want the commitment right now? Because I imagine if he met the person he wants a commitment with, then he'd want the commitment, which I feel like is so often the thing.
How many times have you heard someone say, I'm not really looking for anything serious. Of course you're not until you meet someone with whom you want something serious. Frankly, like I've always found, I've always fallen into serious relationships only when I wasn't looking,
Kirsten Trammell: hmm.
Billy Procida: I met my last ex. On Tinder when I was about to have a fuck boy summer, cause it was supposed to be the hot vaccinated summer, right?
It was 2021 as that's what that was supposed to be. Fell in love woman before that I was all supposed to be fucking around, fell for her. Couple of girlfriends before that, like I met her at a sex party. Like I, you know, it's when you're not, it's, it's [00:28:00] not where you're looking for commitment that you find it, you know, in an orgy basement in Bushwick while two dudes blow each other next to you. Sometimes you find it there.
Kirsten Trammell: Why do you think that is? Because that is so true. It's like the moment you stop looking for it, it shows up at your doorstep, and I always wonder why.
Billy Procida: Cause fate is fucking with us. And there's also something to be said of like when you can like kind of sense like when it gets to a thirsty level, you can sense that. Have you ever I don't know, met that like 37 year old woman who's like very career oriented, maybe put the dating life aside, has decided to go in this type A personality way of here's what I'm looking for.
Here's what I need. Now I'm off there to look for it. And when you talk to her, if you're on a date with her, like she seems like she's going to vibrate and explode at any moment because she's I. Fucking need fuck, it's it's not this similar to the dude who's thirsty to fuck. And like when, but you can sense it off him or that you can smell the desperation.
It [00:29:00] becomes, it's unattractive and then repels people who would otherwise maybe have sat on your face, but you acted so like I need some time to touch my dick and nobody wants to touch that person's dick.
Kirsten Trammell: They're like, get away, get away. Yeah.
Billy Procida: Looking, so to speak, when you have the looking switch turned off, you're just naturally more relaxed because you're not looking for it and your relaxed self is certainly a more attractive version of yourself unless you meet another person who is also who tackles dating like like a fucking job hunt, which is not like it's fine if that's how you want to do it.
It's not the way I approach dating and love, but if you want to be like, these are the things I'm looking for and this is where I'm going to look for them and these are my. Okay. Go for it. But I do think when you're like looking, you have a different energy about yourself than when you're not looking.
And it happens to come, you know, stumble upon you. Anytime I've been looking, I actually only end up [00:30:00] with casual sexual partners. And then when I'm not looking and you know, I fall in love and shit and I find casual sexual partners,
Kirsten Trammell: So moral of the story, let's all stop looking if that's what your MO is. Yeah, I, and it's probably you're the best version of yourself when you're just being who you are and you don't care. And that's really attractive. Yeah.
Billy Procida: like the guy who's not trying to bang someone becomes more attractive to them. Cause Oh my God, he's just like talking to me at this party. And I don't. I don't feel like he's trying to fuck me. I don't, he hasn't 30 seconds in this conversation tried to make moves and shoulder taps and such you know, it becomes more natural.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. I like, I think about, I don't know why I always relate some of this stuff to like business and sales and it's like anyone who's trying to sell you something, like someone who calls you up and is I don't even think these people exist anymore, but like a telemarketer people that are trying to get you to buy stuff or like whatever it is, you know, you're like, no, I don't want to buy [00:31:00] that crap from you. But
Billy Procida: I mean, I just rewatched Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross a few nights ago. Now all these sales dudes. They're making the phone calls. They're showing up to people's doors, trying to sell them. Then they go to Al Pacino, who is just chilling. And the whole day they're like, where's, I forget his character's name, but where's Pacino?
Where's Pacino? They're like, I don't know. But he's also the top seller in the office. And they keep cutting to him in his bar. And we don't even really know what he's doing in the bar until like halfway through the movie when we realize, Oh, He's just he's making a legit sale, but the guy he's selling to has no idea he's selling to him because right now he's not selling to him right now.
He's just trying to make a friend with a guy at a bar. That he like did the research on, knew that like his that his lead goes to this bar, right? So then he's just hanging out, drinking at the bar, getting the dude drunk at the bar, and then later he, I don't know yeah, I sell land, it's a pretty good deal, you wouldn't want anything of it.
And then all of a sudden the guy wants in, and gives him a whole bunch of money that his wife is mad about. [00:32:00] As a, and that's why Al Pacino is the biggest seller in that office. Cause when he's selling to you, he's not even really selling to you. If you don't want to buy it, he's going to be good. Al Pacino's character comes from an abundancy mindset.
It's all good. All these other characters, it's all scarcity. They're like, fuck, if I don't, how am I going to keep my job? Or how am I going to get the money? If I don't make the sale shit, I got to make this every sale becomes important. I do think there's a lot of guys who have this mentality when it comes to sex, where Finally, someone is even talking to for some dudes.
It's there's a woman finally speaking to me for some dudes. It's this woman's like interested in me but is like being normal at a normal pace is that like a bar having a conversation? And sometimes these dudes think, oh, a woman's finally talked to me. Let me blurt the sex stuff. There's guys who are they find themselves in a situation that maybe they're not often in and then go, fuck, this time needs to be the time because I don't know the next time a woman's going to talk to me.
with interest or talk to me at [00:33:00] all. And then that energy comes out, becomes unattractive, sometimes cause them to jump to the topic of sex a little too soon, cause them to be more nervous or say something stupid, whatever. It's all because they're coming from the scarcity mindset of I don't know when I'm going to get laid next.
I don't know when I'm getting laid next. I've got to cut off every sexual partner I have for the most part. But I'm not worried about it. And I think it's that energy that has drawn women to me, even though I don't have abs and my hair is not the fullest and my dick is pretty normal and I'm like a chubby issue, right?
Like I don't make a lot of money. I'm a professional poor person, comedian, and yet I get laid more than dudes who go to the gym a lot and make more money than me. Why? Because I think some, for whatever reasons that dude has, he's coming from a place of scarcity.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Yeah.
Billy Procida: chill, dudes. It's fine. Someone will touch it at some point. It's okay if they don't for a while. I haven't [00:34:00] got, I haven't, I haven't gotten laid in two months and I'm chilling. I'm fine. It's okay.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. I. Love hearing you say that and like being able to step into that like relaxed state of it's fine. And I think that as women, we can totally like subconsciously or consciously, whatever it is, feel that and vice versa. Shit, there are a lot of women that are like out there doing the same thing on the reverse side of it.
And it's not well received by guys either,
Billy Procida: You mean romantically or sexually?
Kirsten Trammell: romantically.
Billy Procida: Yeah. I w it's one of the, I don't like gendering stuff terribly often, but that's, Something I think would be true is that there were, that was what I was talking about, the woman who's like vibrating and explodes it. That's the same, same energy where she was just like relaxed a little.
And it's easy for me to say that. I know it's difficult to do, but it is the answer. I think,
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. How do you do it then?
Billy Procida: I mean, it's, I think [00:35:00] it's easier for me to come from a place of. abundance because kind of in my adult life always there's always been sexual abundance. I don't,
Kirsten Trammell: You're like, the track record shows.
Billy Procida: I've been fine. I don't know, like I've never gone a couple months without
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Billy Procida: doing something with somebody. Like I said, this is like the last 10 ish months has been New and different for me, but I think I can do this period more relaxed because I've already I had plenty of sex.
I'm good. If I need to, if I need to put my dick away for a little while, I'm all right. If you're someone who hasn't had a lot of sex or had a lot is subjective. So if you're someone who hasn't been having the amount of sex you would like to be having, it can be difficult to be relaxed about it, but man, when you can chill out and just remember that sex is not that big of a deal. I think you'll find yourself having more sex or at least having more interest,
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned like having that moment where they're like [00:36:00] talking to a girl and you're like, Oh, this is my one shot. It's if you're talking to. women all the time, then you won't probably feel that way when you have that one experience, that one moment of being faced with a woman that maybe you
Billy Procida: when you talk to women, when you talk to a lot of women, and it's not always with the purpose of hitting on them. When you talk to them, like they're crazy, just like another person. Radical idea. But like, when you, when you like, when you, when you interact with women, just like you do with the guys, and then sometimes some stuff pops off, there's some chemistry.
Great. But if you treat every time you talk to a woman as a potential sexual encounter, yeah, it's a, it's a different vibe. And they can, they can always tell
Kirsten Trammell: yeah, yeah, I this is like reminding me of me personally I like have started doing this thing where I like make it a game of How many guys can I talk to just in the world like if I'm at the grocery store? Can I talk to a guy if I'm at the gym? How many times can I have an interaction with a dude [00:37:00] just to
Billy Procida: without him asking for your number.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just to see, can I do it? How many times can I do it? And just turning it into
Billy Procida: Do you know what your record is?
Kirsten Trammell: No, I shouldn't. If I'm out, I, make it a point, be like, okay, who am I going to talk to?
Billy Procida: And are you giving off a different energy when you make it into that game? Are you trying to, say, figure out a way to desexualize yourself? Or, or make sure you're, like, do you play a game in your head of Oh God, I don't want to give the wrong impression because I'm playing the game of just talking to men in the world, or, or are you just being yourself?
Kirsten Trammell: I think for the most part, I'm just being myself. I'm just like, okay, how can I just spark a random conversation with someone to just practice? And like, how quickly can I make it like, not about Hey, how are you? Or something like generic.
Billy Procida: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's never fun. That's that's never fun. Whenever you can jump in on a conversation with someone specific That's always more interesting. At least
Kirsten Trammell: [00:38:00] Yeah. Yeah.
Billy Procida: That's why that's why no one should be opening on a dating app Literally never should be opening with. How are you? How is your day? I sometimes host speed dating events on the side.
I get I get hired to MC And I will always tell them, I'll tell them in like my intro spiel, I'll be like, Oh yeah, no one asked how you doing. How's your day with no one cares. You have three minutes, make it fucking count. And if you think about the same thing as you know, being in person how are you? No one cares about, but a commentary on something that they're wearing, they're holding, they're.
doing within appropriateness is always going to interest something, someone more there've been times I'll be like, I really want to talk to that one, but I, I don't see an in, I don't, I can't think of a thing to say to her that, you know, isn't just, how are you or clearly me forcing it. I, I go. And so then I do this thing, which is, crazy, but then I just don't say anything to her.
I [00:39:00] think there's some guys who have this mentality of of I don't have a good line, but I'm still going to interrupt this woman's day with a bad line because my Dick is hard. And it's, and I think that as a, we got an issue with I think capital M men across the board where we're socialized to be earners, to be winners, to be achievers.
And so we, that's why I said what I said earlier in the beginning, which is. Don't forget the humanity of the person involved in the encounter just because you want something. It's fine that you want something. And sometimes we have to let go of things that we want because of how it might affect other people.
You know, it's just cause you want to go talk to that hot chick at the gym. If you got nothing to say, that's going to maybe interest her with the day. Is it worth interrupting her workout routine to say, Hey, so yeah, he'd be coming to this gym long. Fuck off with your face. No one cares. Do better.
Let it go.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, yeah, and what a way to push [00:40:00] yourself to be like, okay I have to think of something and two if you're talking to someone and or you're looking at someone to approach or Engage with and you can find nothing Sometimes I'm like, I probably should not connect with that person because I can't even find anything to connect with Initiate connection with, yeah.
Billy Procida: Yeah. I remember, I mean, there was a woman I did a couple of years ago, like a year and a half ago. Like I met this woman who I saw for a while and I was at a bar, I was actually like going to go do an open mic at a bar and I'm waiting for the mic to start. And I was waiting to order a drink.
Woman next to me is talking to the bartender about stripping. She, how, she, how she just moved here from New York. She was a stripper out in Colorado and you know, it was just moving here. Yeah. And then considering what I do for work, I then said something, something I said something related to sex work.
Like it, it, it made sense is either about stripping or escorting or whatever, but I may, because I have a lot of experience with sex work and talking to sex workers [00:41:00] because what I do for work and that was relevant to what she was just talking about. And then we ended up hitting it off. And we hung out till 6am.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm. Oh
Billy Procida: I met this woman at 5 o'clock in the evening. We were both there for the open mic. I didn't know she was there for the open mic because she was at the bar talking about stripping. But yeah, we ended up both skipping the open mic just because we were hitting it off. But if, if I had said whatever I had said and she, ah, that's interesting.
And then turned to look away. Then they'd drop it. Whereas I think there's a lot, you know, at least from what I hear from talking to so many women is there a lot of guys who they say that line, it didn't pull them in and then they keep trying.
Kirsten Trammell: hmm.
Billy Procida: Leave her the fuck alone, dude.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, and I, and I would imagine perhaps that comes from either I guess like a desire to be like, no, like I must win this person over, or like a lack of awareness to read an individual.
Billy Procida: Yeah. But I think the lack of awareness. Unless there's some sin [00:42:00] some sincere spectrumness going on. I think a lot of that aloofness comes from not caring about others. You're not picking up on her signals because you're only focused on your chess moves. like you're not even thinking about where her head is at.
You know, they, you know, I, I did a piece for Mashable a year ago about how men need to talk to each other differently about sex. And in my research for that, you know, they, there were some studies done where men were scoring lower on EQ tests, like emotional IQ tests than women, but they weren't.
They were having, they couldn't really find some sort of chemical biological reason why like men and women would score differently on EQ tests, alluding to maybe it has to do with how we raise and socialize young members, young women. And I do think there's an empathy problem with men and. Men need to think more about how women might feel or think.[00:43:00]
Not so much so that you then desexualize or asexualize yourself. And then put yourself in the a lot of guys like to complain about the friend zone. That's, that's a valid concern. You don't want to pull back too much that you're no longer. A sexual being, but but just like giving a shit enough.
I think that goes for picking up women. I think that goes for the orgasm gap that goes down, you know, like just caring that she comes and caring that she comes for her pleasure, not caring that she comes for your prowess, like I accomplished getting her off. I think that this kind of shows up in a lot of places around, you know, across the board.
And I think part of that can come from a lot of men who don't have women friends. Or they don't have women friends who they're not trying to fuck. You know, it's if you have more women friends and you, if you have a lot of chick friends and you have heard chicks complain about men enough to know some things to try to avoid, it's a constant learning experience.
I'm always learning new things to try to do differently, but. You know, I think I got bullied a lot by dudes growing up. So I [00:44:00] didn't have a lot of guy friends. So all my friends have been chicks. So yeah, like I've heard about their experience a lot. And then like also doing the show for 10 years, you know, I hear a lot of those stories and a lot of those experiences and, you know, just keep that in mind as I try to go through this world.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that. That was phenomenal advice, I would have to say about how to engage and just take a look at ourselves, as well as how we show up with other people. Like the emotional intelligence thing is totally something that we can learn as we, as we grow. I want to share, where can everybody hang out with you more? Because I know that you have phenomenal stories, phenomenal guests on your show, like all of the stuff that you do. Also, you're in New York City, which is one of my favorite cities of all time. The next time I'm there, I want to come to one of your naked Mike nights, but where can everyone hang hang out with you more, come see you naked, hear your comedy.
Billy Procida: Yeah, if you go to [00:45:00] manwhorepod. com, you'll see my show dates for all my clothed and unclothed standup dates. Manwhorepod. com. Dot com. We'll give you all that information. If you are looking for a place to like, hang out with like minded, sex positive people, I have a discord server.
It's free to join. It's called the champagne room. We talk about sex and dating and love and sex toy recommendations and all that. So you can go to man whore pod.
com slash discord to join us there. And of course, check out the man whore podcast, wherever you're listening to this wonderful naked show. And that's man whore. One word, apparently I have to say that,
Kirsten Trammell: awesome, Philly. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Billy Procida: Thank you for having
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