Should Men Actually Be More Vulnerable?
Vulnerability is often seen as a weakness, something to be avoided at all costs.
However, in the realm of relationships, embracing vulnerability can be a powerful catalyst for fostering deeper connections and understanding.
But are you doing vulnerability in an effective way?
If you'd like, you can listen in for more on this topic at The Naked Connection:
This week, Kirsten brings the guys, Connor Beaton, a pioneer in the field of men's work, offers a refreshing perspective on the intricacies of male vulnerability and its role in cultivating meaningful relationships. He delves into the landscape of men in relationships, shedding light on the challenges they face and the societal narratives that shape their experiences.
One of the central themes explored is the myth of male vulnerability as a cure-all. Beaton debunks this notion, emphasizing that while vulnerability is essential, it is not a one-size-fits-all solution. He stresses the importance of self-regulation and impulse control in fostering authentic connections.
Furthermore, Beaton tackles the complex issue of desexualizing the brain, addressing the prevalent hyper-sexualization in modern culture and its implications for healthy relationships. He provides practical strategies and tools for men to regain control over their impulses and cultivate a deeper level of intimacy and connection.
Throughout the conversation, Beaton's unique insights offer a fresh take on navigating the challenges and embracing the power of vulnerability in fostering lasting, fulfilling connections. He highlights the importance of creating spaces where men can openly express themselves without fear of judgment, encouraging the formation of supportive communities.
Beaton's expertise and authentic approach shed light on the often-overlooked topic of male vulnerability, inviting both men and their partners to explore new depths of understanding and connection. By embracing vulnerability as a strength rather than a weakness, individuals can unlock the potential for more meaningful and fulfilling relationships.
Whether you're a man seeking to embrace vulnerability and nurture meaningful relationships or a partner seeking to understand the intricacies of male vulnerability, this episode promises to be an eye-opening exploration of relational dynamics. Beaton's insights offer a valuable roadmap for navigating the complexities of vulnerability and fostering deeper connections in the modern world.
Episode Transcript
Kirsten Trammell: [00:00:00] Connor Beaton, welcome to the Naked Connection.
Connor Beaton: Thank you very much for having me.
Kirsten Trammell: So I'd love to start off for anyone that's tuning in. What do you hope that they take away from an hour of connecting with you?
Connor Beaton: I would say probably that life is relational and that the quality of your well being as a human being is very much dependent on your relationships. You know, the, the quality of your life is very much determined by who you spend time with and your ability to build those deep relationships is going to dramatically impact your life.
And so my hope is that. Is that they'll have some tools and some new skills and some new frameworks from which they can operate from in repairing their relationships and having the best quality of relationship possible.
Kirsten Trammell: I know from all of the work that you do with men, what would you say is kind of the [00:01:00] landscape of men in relationships right now?
Connor Beaton: man. I think it depends on the age range. To be honest, I think that it depends on the age range. I think that a lot of, you know, I'm fortunate to work with a couple of father of different ages and the young men that I work with, I think there's a more transactional nature that's emerged because of social media and dating, , dating apps and stuff like that.
So I think it's, it's pretty widespread. I think that some men are frustrated with dating and they don't want to be in relationships. I think some men are pretty jaded because they've gone through a brutal divorce and they're on the other side of that you know, F marriage. I'm never doing that again.
I think some men are. , really excited about relationship and they're doing everything they can to better themselves to, be able to lead in a relationship. And so I think it's, it's pretty varied just depending on [00:02:00] where a man is in his life. Age wise, career wise, et cetera.
Kirsten Trammell: And what about, I guess, relationships among men? What do you think is unfolding there?
Connor Beaton: Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I was just on a podcast recently with these three guys and it's like a fatherhood based podcast and they were asking me cause I talked about this peer research study that showed that 15 percent of men can't identify a closer best friend. And that the, the close friend ship circles that we have as men are shrinking.
And , back in the eighties, a man used to have six close friends and that's reduced now, but the average man, , it was like 55 to 70 percent of men back in the, in the eighties had, you know, around six close male friends. And now that's reducing where it's 20 percent of men have six close male friends.
And I think a number of things are impacting male relationships. I think where men used to congregate, those [00:03:00] spaces are being shut down or encrouched on. I think that, , the men at colleges, there's less young men going to college than ever before. So they're not necessarily meeting at college like they used to.
I think that there's a vacancy of. It's sort of like male role models within a lot of our institutions. You know, I think that education is largely dominated by women. The therapeutic industry is largely dominated by women. And so there's not a lot of places where men can really meet if they're not interested in, , drinking.
And , I think it's becoming more and more challenging for men to find like minded men. On the flip side of that, you have a big movement within the like men's movement space, right? Where there's men's groups popping up all over the world. I mean, I have a a men's membership called the Alliance.
And, , we've got seven or 800 guys that are a part of that from all over the place. And so I think that there are things that are being built out to support men, [00:04:00] but I think that in general, you know, there's sort of two things that are really taxing male relationships. One is men. And within male culture, we sort of adopt this notion that you are a better man if you have a higher capacity to figure out your problems on your own.
And that's not super conducive for the foundation of attachment, which is being able to go through a hard time with somebody in relationship and come out the other side okay. That's the basic building block or like nucleus of attachment is, can I go through a hard time with you and come out the other side?
Okay. Even if that hard time is me going through a hard time, going through a breakup, losing my job, having financial stress, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But we, as men have largely bought into this notion and this kind of BS that says one, you are stronger for [00:05:00] suppressing. And repressing what you're feeling.
And two, you are more masculine if you can figure out your problems on your own. Now, this is very counter to what we know about men, which is that men are a force when they are united. And there's lots of different sayings that go along with that, right? Iron sharpens iron is probably the most cliche one, but there's a reason why that saying exists, which is.
You as a man are going to be better when you have other men holding you accountable, period. And you as a man are going to be better when you have other men contributing to the challenges that you have in your life or the goals that you're trying to reach in your life. So if you don't have other men supporting you in those things or pushing you or challenging you or even like in your corner, it's going to, Be harder, it's going to take longer and you're probably going to struggle more.
[00:06:00] So I think that's one major element. And then I think the other element is I always I'm not really too sure how to package this one, but I think the other element is that culturally we have devalued masculinity. And there is a big cultural story that says that men are not Aren't as valuable as women.
And that is very dominant in our culture. You know, I think a lot of men go on YouTube and online and they see all these interviews of people walking down the street and interviewing men and women and saying, you know, they'll interview men and say, do you need women? You know, do you need a woman? And most say, yeah, of course of course we need women.
You know, women are great. We love women. And then they're interviewing women and they're like, do you need men? They're like, hell no, absolutely not. I don't need men. I don't need men. And so there's this massive cultural narrative telling men you're not needed. You're not wanted. If you're masculine, you're dangerous, you're toxic, you're [00:07:00] unhealthy.
And, you know, I mean, you just go down the list, you can kind of prattle off some of those things. And so I think that that's negatively impacting. A man's desire to build healthy male relationships. I think both of those things are impacting a man's ability to develop really strong masculine bonds, because in some ways there's just sort of this what's the point, you know, what's the point in doing that.
And what we, as men often miss out on is that the quality of the men that we're surrounded by is actually a.
It's actually a positive mating indicator for women. If you're surrounded by really good men, a woman is going to take notice of that. If you're surrounded by men who, you know, are in good shape, they're taking care of themselves. They have good women in their lives. You know, they're dating or married to good women.
They are trying to go somewhere with their career or build a business. A woman is going to take note of that. [00:08:00] And so we, we often don't think about that. We don't think that women are also looking at the guys that we're surrounded by, right? If you're surrounded by guys that like, don't have jobs and they're 40 and living in their parents basement, it's she's going to take notice of that.
So it's also a very positive. Mating indicator, whatever you want to say about that. It sounds very clinical, but it's a, it's a positive sign for a woman where she sees a guy that's surrounded by other good men.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, as you're describing this, it makes me think about the movie P. S. I love you. I think it's called. Oh, I love you, man, where the guy's going out to try to find male friends and he's, it's awkward. He doesn't know what to do, but he's I don't have any friends. And I need to change that. And yeah, I have, I have some male friends that have had that experience or have spoken about, I don't know where to go to find friends.
It's easier for girls to find friends. This is awkward. I don't want to go to a bar to talk to a dude [00:09:00] over a drink that I don't know. So I don't know what to do. And yeah, it's kind of, and then marrying that into this. Messaging that's coming from society about, we don't need you. We don't want you.
Connor Beaton: I think it's a very common thing. Like I had a client literally today, this morning, who is one of he's, I can't give away what he does, but he's one of the most successful people in his industry. Let me just put it that way. And he said to me at the end of our call today, why is it so hard to find good men that I can talk to? You know, I think depending on where you are in your life, it can be increasingly challenging. You know, if you're a 20 year old guy and all your buddies want to do is drink and party, and you're interested in philosophy and depth psychology and understanding yourself, you know, at an inner level,
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah,
Connor Beaton: you might, you might struggle, you know, with [00:10:00] conversations at a bar.
Like I saw, I posted a meme the other day. Maybe it was like a month or two ago and it was basically like me at a party and, and it was just, you know, it was like my friends telling me to keep things light and easy. And then, you know, me going into some existential conversation. And that's, that's pretty much me when I get around my friends.
But they all know to expect that now. But I do think it's challenging men, men on average, as even as boys have a harder time developing friendships than girls do, because there's a socialization aspect to girls that encourages togetherness, community social sharing, emotional sharing. And for boys, that's not, that's not how we develop, you know, when you look at the developmental components to to a young boy's life, a lot of it's.
Rough and tumble play risk taking You know, there's, there is togetherness, but it's togetherness for competition. You know, it's can my group beat your group? You know, [00:11:00] can my team beat your team? And we've, you know, we've sanitized the education system. We've sanitized the playground. We've sanitized these places where young boys used to take risks.
Get rough, you know, play around, push their edges, see what they're physically capable of. That's how, that's how a lot of young boys and young men think, you know, I see to my boy, he's three and the only thing he wants to do is wrestle with me. Every. minute of the day, this morning, literally this morning, six 30 in the morning data wrestle.
I'm like, bro, it's six 30 in the morning. I haven't even had my coffee yet. Let me wake up. Data wrestle, data, wrestle data. Let's wrestle. You know, that's what he wants to do. And so there's, there's something hardwired into us that I think our culture has failed to allow for.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's [00:12:00] interesting. I'm, I'm in grad school right now, studying to be a therapist. And so in my cohort, there's 12 of us and only one person is a guy. So it's just really hard to think about all of this as unfolding. And then when it comes to education or getting mental health support. The pillars of those places are so female dominant.
It's like, how can we adjust to fit with? With what men really need to yeah,
Connor Beaton: I mean, it's, it's. You know, you have, it's, I think it's 75 percent of therapists are female and that there's nothing, I don't think there's a problem per se. However, I do think that the, the therapeutic. I call it the therapeutic industrial complex, but I think that the therapeutic industry in a large part is failing to take into account how to work with men.
And the evidence of that's pretty clear. There was some, a piece of research done in the UK that looked at men and that took their own lives. [00:13:00] And what they found was that 92 percent of men that took their own lives were in therapy. Okay. 92 percent of men that took their own lives were in therapy or had sought support within the last year.
Now, here's the real kicker. 82 percent of those men that had seen a therapist were deemed as no risk or low risk for taking their own lives. Even when a man enters into the therapeutic system, it is pretty bad at identifying how bad off a man actually is. Right? That's, that's pretty brutal. And I can't tell you how many men have come to work with me over the years, who, just one second, I gotta, I can't tell you how many men have come to work with me over the years that have, you know, spent an hour with me or come out to a men's weekend or joined a group that I've run. And, you know, after the first hour, they're like, I feel like I got more out of [00:14:00] this than I did in the last two, three, five years of therapy.
Why is that? What, what's going on? And you know, I think that. Oftentimes the therapy focus is in on understanding what you're feeling, validating and verifying your experience. But it misses out on this very masculine component, which is, I want to develop competency. I want to see results. Men want to see results, right?
And so for a lot of women, when they go into therapy, it's okay for them to talk about their experience and talk about what's happening in their relationship and marriage and talk about how they're feeling with relationship to their mom or their career or whatever it is. And that feels very satisfying and satiating for them.
And for a man. That can feel good to a degree, but then there's things that's now what do I do, right? What should I do about that? How do I solve this problem? How do I get better at feeling like I lack confidence? [00:15:00] You know, how do I get better in the bedroom with my wife? How do I get better at picking up women?
And so there's this big chunk that's missing in a large way that actually is teaching men how to be more capable and more competent. And that's, that's pretty much. Entirely what my company focuses in on is like, how do you be more competent? How do you lead yourself as a man more effectively? Because in all of my work in the last decade, that's what I see men asking for.
It's help me be more self led. So I'm not making terrible decisions and effing up my life and help me feel more competent and capable in the areas that I give a shit about. You know, communicating with my partner, having great sex, you know, being able to provide and make a living, feeling good about my body and how I look, being able to make good male friendships and there's just a, not a lot of focus in on that.
And yeah, I think the last piece I'd say is I've, I've actually, I'm actually just about to put out a [00:16:00] training for therapists and psychologists and coaches and counselors. That's going to address this very real problem. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, it's time. It's time.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, yeah, and That's really awesome. Um in in looking and understanding all of this I I feel like we could become very doom and gloom about it Of we're heading into this darkness and all of these bad things are happening and I think we have to understand what's unfolding to then be able to change it, so I guess from your experience, what is, you mentioned being self led, it sounds like that is a really large aspect of if someone's stuck in experiencing this loneliness, this confusion about who to be, how to show up, is that the first, is that where you direct people?
Connor Beaton: Yeah. It kind of depends on what the guy is presenting with when he comes in. You know, sometimes I'll look at his childhood. Sometimes I'll look at his attachment. The, the key is to look at where are the blocks in that [00:17:00] man's life? Where is he sabotaging? Where is he really struggling? And, you know, is he dealing with anxiety about the future because, you know, he's not sure if he's going to have his job next week, which is a very real thing that you can talk about and strategize around, or does he keep sabotaging his marriage because he continues to go back to porn and can't seem to stop watching pornography because he's terrified of it.
He feels insecure with, you know, being able to be sexually proficient in the bedroom with his girlfriend or wife, which is a very different conversation, right? So it's kind of like playing a bit of detective around what's the real problem that that man is facing. Where is he sabotaging and then what is needed in order to help him be not just feel, but actually be more proficient, more capable, more, more competent in this specific area, right?
Does he need to. [00:18:00] Be more capable at having tough conversations. Does he need to develop proficiency in setting some boundaries? Does he need to start saying no, you know, in his relationship, or does he need to start speaking up for what he actually wants? I mean, the list can go on and on. Does he need to take a class or does he need some education around how his own body works and why he's, you know, ejaculating too quickly?
Does he need to understand why. You know what he's feeling before he's watching porn as an example and why he keeps going back to pornography instead of initiating sex in his relationship. So I think that's part of it, but the end result is always helping that man develop. The, the parts of himself that he feels are very underdeveloped that are causing him to feel insecure that are causing him to sabotage and to continue to go back to behavior and decisions and choices and people that he knows aren't good for him.
Kirsten Trammell: yeah, there are probably so many different directions you could take. And one thing that [00:19:00] is popping up into my mind is in looking at, you know, just everything we were just discussing about therapy and education and life and the people, the reasons why people come to you is this question about should a man be more vulnerable?
And that is a question that I find myself as a woman wondering, and I. No men wonder it as well. Like where, where do we live? Where do men live in that space?
Connor Beaton: Yeah, it's such a big cultural conversation right now, right? And I wrote a chapter, so I wrote a book called Men's Work and it's done really well. It's, it's turned out to be like one of the most referred books by therapists and counselors to men that they work with. And in it, I wrote a chapter called The Myth of Male Vulnerability.
And the myth is, in our current culture, the myth is, This belief that if you as a man are just more vulnerable, it'll solve all your problems. That's BS. [00:20:00] That's not the be all end all solution, but that's what men are being told, right? It's if your relationship isn't working, be more vulnerable, right?
You're not happy in life. Be more vulnerable. You, you're not making enough money. Be more vulnerable, you know, like that will solve all of your issues. That's, that's a myth, right? That's not going to work. It might work in some areas of your life. But what. People are usually asking for from men when they say, Hey, babe, I want you to be more vulnerable is not what men usually think, right?
Men usually think Oh, she wants me to break down and cry in front of her. And, you know, confess my deepest, darkest secrets and you know, whatever. And that's not usually the case. I'm going to get to what women are actually asking for in a minute. I just want to say one more thing, which is.
Every man knows that there's a risk to being vulnerable. Every man, it's baked into our DNA. We can feel it in our body, right? When there's that moment that, that intersection of should [00:21:00] I open up and be real, should I open up and tell her or him what I'm actually feeling or going through, there's this kind of like alarm that goes off in a man's body and says, I don't know if you should do that.
And that's there because. Of a number of things. One of which is the endless amount of stories that men have heard or experienced firsthand of opening up and getting burned, you know, opening up and being vulnerable and telling their girlfriend or their wife, what they're feeling, what they are desiring, you know, what, what they're upset about.
And then two days later, having that used against them, you know, having that used as ammunition against them to tear them down or hurt them or character attack them. And. Or they open up and be vulnerable and all of a sudden she pulls away and doesn't want to be sexually close or intimate, or, you know, all of a sudden the relationship that [00:22:00] you've been in for two months just ends out of nowhere and you don't really know why.
And so I think for a lot of men, they know that there's a risk to being vulnerable and open, and there's a risk around men as well, right? You might get made fun of, you might get rejected. You might. You know, you got, might get picked on. And so every man knows that there's just this kind of cost that comes along with vulnerability.
And so there's an apprehension around it. And I think that we have to approach vulnerability with a reality, you know, that if you're going to be vulnerable, there is such a thing as sharing too much, too soon and with the wrong person, all those things are true. And so you have to assess, is this a relationship or a space where my Real truth and transparency is welcome.
And, you know, it's one of the reasons why I built the alliance is that it's really meant for men to develop male friendships where. Real radical transparency is just on the table. Doesn't matter what you did. [00:23:00] Doesn't matter your background. I don't give a shit who you voted for. It doesn't matter like how messy your divorce was.
This is a place for you to get real and to tell other men what you went through or what you're going through right now in a way that is nonjudgmental. Because I think that in some, in some ways, every man is every man's trying to answer two questions and those two questions relate to friendship, which is, is there someone in your life who knows you deeply and doesn't judge you?
So for a lot of men, the answer is no. For some men it's yeah, there's people that know me and then don't judge me. And then the other one is, is there somebody in your life who knows you deeply, doesn't judge you and holds you accountable? And for a lot of men, the answer is no. And that goes back to male friendship, right?
That we need that accountability. Okay, last thing, and I'll hand the torch back over, I promise,
Kirsten Trammell: Keep going.
Connor Beaton: because I can hear the guys [00:24:00] being like, wait, wait, wait, don't go past the what do women actually mean when they say they want you to open up and be more vulnerable? I can hear the dudes. I put out a post a couple years ago and I said, when a woman says she wants you to be vulnerable, what she's actually saying is, I want to know that you know what you're feeling.
You're able to communicate what you're experiencing internally and that you have a plan or resources to deal with it.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Connor Beaton: And for, I got hundreds, thousands of comments. There's like thousands of comments. It wouldn't be like, yeah, this is it. And yeah, that's it. And yeah, this is it. And the guys were all like, what?
That's, that's, that's it. And so for the most part, that's what a woman's really saying is I want to know what's going on inside of you. I want you to be able to communicate that, you know, what's going on. Hey, I, I do feel angry because nothing's more frightening to a woman than feeling into your body and having you be angry.
And then her saying, Hey, why are you angry? And you saying, I'm not [00:25:00] angry. That feels like, that feels like entering into a dark cave of snakes, you know, for most women, it's I can tell that you're angry, but you're denying it. So they want to know that you can communicate what you're feeling, that you're aware of it.
And that you're able to express it, not offload it onto them, and to be able to have tools or resources to be able to traverse. Your own experience. Now that doesn't mean that there's not times to get support in your relationship. I'm not one of those like dudes that's advocating for never opening up to your, your wife or your girlfriend, or never talk about what you're feeling.
I think that that stuff on the internet is largely ridiculous and very unhelpful. But that's, what's meant by vulnerability. That's what most women mean. And the last thing that I'll say is. Some women do not know how to receive a man's vulnerability and it can cause them a lot of discomfort, [00:26:00] fear, sadness, anger, volatility, because it's the thing they never got from their father.
And so when it shows up in front of them, they can react negatively to it, or it's the thing that they've wanted, but when they get it. It's frightening. And so they start to back away, or it can feel too intense and they don't really know what to do with it, or they move into a mothering space and they immediately start to try and solve your problem and fix it and make you feel better.
And that shifts the dynamic for both of you. And so it is a bit of a tricky thing. So I'll pause there. Cause I'm sure that there's some threads you want to pull on.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, I have, I have never heard someone explain what it, what women are asking for when they are asking for vulnerability in that way. And I personally feel like that is very true. And I guess understanding the apprehension and just the innate risk that comes with being vulnerable and as you described, recognizing that women are going to respond the way they're going to [00:27:00] respond.
Is there a way to check before?
Connor Beaton: Yes. Yeah. So there's some questions that you can ask you know, if you're in a new ish relationship, you can ask the woman you're dating Hey, have you ever been in a guy in a relationship with a guy who was like too vulnerable? Or have you ever been in a relationship with a guy who was always talking about his emotions?
How was that for you? You know, you could ask, Hey, you know, when a guy has opened up to you before, how's that gone? You know, or how do you feel about guys feelings? It's just a very simple, direct question. How do you feel about men's feelings? You know, and you could also go a little bit deeper and get some insight into what her track record has been with men's emotions.
So simple question is, you know, what was your dad's emotions? It's just a very simple question and you're going to get some insight. You know, maybe he was very grounded and [00:28:00] he was loving and, you know, he got angry sometimes, but it was safe. Or you're going to learn that he was an emotional pushover and was largely spineless and mom ran the show and dad never, ever stood up for himself.
And so that's probably an indicator that she's never seen a man in a healthy way, stand up for himself and set a boundary unless she's dated somebody like that, right? So you can ask some of these questions to get an understanding of what that woman's relationship to a man's emotions is. Is and that will help inform you.
Because sometimes just asking directly, Hey, if I opened up and just was vulnerable with you, how would that feel? She might say one thing and do another. And so I would detective a little bit. I would actually get some insight for myself before I actually be like, Oh, of course, no problem. And internally it's Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope.
Can't, can't handle. Yeah, so those are some of the questions that I would ask that would [00:29:00] give you insight into how she might relate to your emotions. And, and the last one is you know, like how vulnerable have your past boyfriends or partners been and that can give some insight and then you can ask, like, how did that go?
You know, how, how was that for you? Because she may have been with somebody who was abusive or was really emotionally volatile. And so any type of you starting to express Your own vulnerabilities might be coded internally for her incorrectly because especially like women that have been in relationships with emotionally abusive, physically abusive, verbally abusive men your emotions, unfortunately, as a man, unless that woman has gone through a lot of healing work, your emotions are going to be coded as dangerous and threatening.
And, and sometimes even the. The non threatening ones like grief and sadness will get coded as dangerous or manipulative.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Okay.
Connor Beaton: Did that [00:30:00] answer the question? I know I'm
Kirsten Trammell: Yes. Yes,
Connor Beaton: trying to give the layers.
Kirsten Trammell: No, that is really, really powerful. And I can see, I'm just playing it out in my mind how being asked those questions would go and how much information you can actually get from kind of vetting that a little bit beforehand. Yeah.
Connor Beaton: Yeah. And, and sometimes your vulnerability as a man is the setting of a boundary. Like my wife told this story of when we first started dating and we were like six months into the relationship and we were on a, I think we were on a vacation. We were on a trip in like Hawaii and we were traveling together and.
Neither of us has a clue what she said. But she said something and I apparently didn't like it. And I just said to her, Hey, I don't like that. You said that don't speak to me like that. And that was it. That's all that I said. And then there was silence in the car and that was it. And that for me was really vulnerable.
That felt vulnerable for [00:31:00] me because I hadn't I had a tough time in patch relationships, just speaking up for myself and saying, I did not like that. Or that felt. That did not feel good. I don't like the way that you spoke to me. And I would have never said that. So that felt really vulnerable for me.
And, you know, an hour or two later, she was like, you know, I can't remember. We pulled over somewhere and there's this beautiful view. And she's you know, that's the first time that anybody, any man. Has ever stood up to me in a way that I felt safe and immediately relaxed and did not feel defensive.
And I was like, Oh, that's cool. And I said, that's great. Cause that was really hard for me to do. She's really? And I was like, yeah, I was freaking out inside. She's Oh my God. She's I loved it. She's I feel so attracted to you. And I was like, Oh, okay. And inside I was like, what? That felt insanely vulnerable for me to do.
I was like, for sure. This is not going to go well. And you know, sometimes for us as men, the [00:32:00] thing that we feel is vulnerable is what the relationship actually needs, you know, in order to succeed, in order to be healthy. So it's not just like gushing out your emotions. It can be the vulnerability of saying, Hey, I really want to try this.
You know, in the bedroom, how would you feel about that, you know, or I have this fantasy that I want to explore, or, you know, I've always wanted to go and do this experience to I've always wanted to go skydiving with somebody, and that would just be the most incredible thing, or I want to have this peak experience with you, and here's what it looks like, or it's just the the setting of the boundary.
Hey. I didn't like that. Don't talk to me like that. You know, those are the vulnerable things that we as men oftentimes need to step into, but we don't code it as vulnerable.
Kirsten Trammell: I appreciate you sharing that. I can totally see how hearing that would be a very attractive thing. Someone setting their [00:33:00] boundary for themselves of the standards of how they want to show up in a relationship. Yeah. Okay. So you've mentioned some pieces of sex and I would love to explore now that we understand a little bit more about how to be vulnerable.
We know what's happening in the lives of men today, what's happening in terms of sex. And I know more specifically, you've spoken. At great length about desexualizing your brain, and I'm curious if that has been a primary piece for you or what, or what is right now.
Connor Beaton: Yeah. I mean, I, I re I did this like mini episode and podcast and video that went pretty viral. Like it has almost like a million views on, on YouTube and it was all about desexualizing your brain. And. I did it not because I think that men should be non sexual, you know, and I think that's, that's not it.
It [00:34:00] was funny to see some of the comments of we're just naturally sexual beings and it's yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. One of the main challenges that we as men face in our modern culture is A hyper hyper hyper over sexualization, you know, the average 13, 14, 15 year old boy can go online on his laptop on his phone and see more nudity and more sexual gratification in an hour or two, then the majority of men throughout human history will have seen in their entire lifetime.
Like just process the quantity, you know, like you can go and watch, like a young boy can go watch porn for a couple hours as some of them do. And they will view more sexual content than some men will have ever experienced in their entire life. And so there's just this desensitization that can happen to actual sex.
And then this hyper [00:35:00] orientation towards constantly thinking about it. Which can be distracting, which can cause a man to, you know, not be able to focus at work. It can cause him to not actually bring his true sexual desires to his relationship. Or he'll, he's never really present during sex and his relationship because he's thinking about some other, you know, some video or some porn star that he watched or some position you know, he's comparing himself to some dude, you know, in a porn whose like literal job is to bang, you know, sorry to be crude, but like his literal job is just to fuck, you know, it's I wouldn't compare myself to, you know, I don't know, like the best musician out in the world, you know, because that's just I don't practice that every single day for eight hours a day.
Right. You know, I think those are some of the things that get in the way and men have become so conditioned to be [00:36:00] so hyper sexualized that it's diminishing their ability to. In real life situations because they're so overstimulated that they don't know where to begin or. You know, there's comparison.
And so they have all these ruminating thoughts, which takes them out of the moment, they get stressed out. They get, you know, erectile problems or premature ejaculation problems, which are just a nervous system thing, which we could talk about if we want. But so it's important for us. It's important for men to, to really take a hard look at do.
I think about sex maybe too much. Is it getting in the way of me just living a normal life, you know, or like being in relationship in the way that I want. And again, I'm not advocating for not thinking about sex or not having great sex. I'm actually saying when you can. When you can contain some of that, you can channel that energy properly in a really [00:37:00] intense, really beautiful, really wonderful way in your relationship.
And sometimes for some guys, porn is the reason why they're not having the sex that they want in the relationship. Because every time they go to ask for or initiate or create the fantasy or the type of sexual connection that they really want, that seems hard. That's confronting. There's a risk in that you might get rejected.
You know, you might feel insecure or Oh, I don't know how is this going to go? And so what do you do instead? You go, you know, open your phone or your laptop and go to porn hub and watch it instead. And you watch somebody else do it. So we've created this kind of like voyeur culture a little bit where a lot of men are checking out from the type of sex and intimacy that they really want.
And they're plugging in to this. You know, instant gratification, any moment to watch whatever the hell that they want. And I think it's, I think it's pretty damaging on young men. So that's kind of the big picture. I don't know where you want to go [00:38:00] from there, but
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. It sounds like what you're describing, there's a lack of control over it. If you're being fed all of this and it's so easy to receive and then it kind of takes over your mind,
Connor Beaton: yes.
Kirsten Trammell: kind of how do you like reverse that and control it so that you can be a part of it when you want to.
Connor Beaton: I mean, like it, it diminishes a man's impulse control. Plain and simple. And what we know about human beings is that having a good level of impulse control is good for you as a human. And having poor impulse control is very bad. It's very harmful, right? If you have poor impulse control with food, that's going to be a problem.
If you have poor impulse control with alcohol or drugs, it's going to be a problem. And so if you have poor impulse control with. sexual content and being able to say no to porn or, you know, Instagram bikini models with, you [00:39:00] know, inspiring quotes in the captions.
Kirsten Trammell: Yes.
Connor Beaton: It's a very specific one. I, I did in the de sexualizing the video. Desexualizing your brain video. I made a joke about women's pole vaulting because this is, this is how fucked up the algorithms are. Okay. The algorithms on YouTube and Tik TOK, they feed you. Stuff that they think will keep you there.
And so if a guy starts to look at like gym content or, you know, and he happens to fall on like a fitness model and all of a sudden he's looking at a number of fitness models, and then, you know, the next day he goes back onto his explore page on Instagram or YouTube or whatever it is, and there happens to be like.
20 percent more of those that, you know, content of women in bikinis or like really tight pants. And then all of a sudden there's sneaky ways that the algorithm will try and feed you sexualized content. So they'll start to feed you like women's pole vaulting or women's long jump [00:40:00] or like women's try on stuff.
And so guys are like watching all of this, like obscured sexualized content, right? Cause it's like women wearing almost nothing, but Okay. Doing pole vaulting. And so a guy's Oh, maybe it's not so bad. And all of a sudden, 10 minutes later, he's on Pornhub. And so he goes from like women's pole vaulting to, you know, jerking off and watching some type, some type of porn.
So impulse control, right? This is why we need to develop impulse control. So you can say no in the moments where you're like, I got to get some work done. Or let me bring this sexual energy to my partner, you know, to my girlfriend or wife instead. And like flirt or tell her that I'm aroused and turn on and you know, want to have some fun porn creates and sexual content in general creates a very, it's like a low hanging fruit, right?
Porn. There's no risk. And there's somewhat high reward, right? There's no risk at all. You're not going to get told no by Pornhub, right? You can watch anything that you want. You can find anything that you want. [00:41:00] You can go on to a cam girls website or an only fans and pay for whatever it is that you want.
And you're not going to get told no, whereas in your relationship, there's a risk. You might get rejected. You might get turned down. It might be a not right now. And so it's an easy way for us to get around the natural boundaries and limitations that come along with a relationship, which I think is an important part of it because that can build arousal that can build a charge.
If you let it, instead of constantly being like I need to get off right now. And so it can sometimes this. Hyper sexualization that has entered into our culture can sometimes objectify and turn sex into a commodity and turn, you know, the opposite sex into a commodity that you're just trying to buy or get versus a relationship that you're trying to build and a vehicle for self expression.
So that's my rant.[00:42:00]
Kirsten Trammell: No, I love it. This it's so funny that you bring up the pole vaulting in the search engine because the other day I was having a conversation with some friends and we showed each other our search our for you pages and they were so different. And it was kind of this joke of, Oh, that's how you get to know someone as you look at their, their for you column on Instagram or Tick Tock.
And it's really scary how yeah. Quickly that can lead to something else. Since you've mentioned how action oriented, wonderful men are, what is something that understanding this that can be applied or like an actionable tool to start implementing. If someone's listening and they're like, yeah, I recognize that I fall into this pattern and I don't want to do it.
I don't know what to do to stop.
Connor Beaton: Yeah, cool. A couple of things. Number one, lacking impulse control is largely lacking nervous system regulation, being able to actually regulate your body and your nervous system. And so for a lot of guys, they're using [00:43:00] hyper sexualized, maybe not using, it's not the right word, but hyper sexualized, Thinking is a, is a response mechanism to a dysregulated body.
So if you're feeling something you don't want to feel, if you're feeling anxiousness, if you're feeling stress, if you're feeling anger or bored or lonely, and you don't want to feel that way, right? Soon as you feel that emotion, Oh, there's that anxiousness again. Shit. I don't want to feel that way. Oh, there's that anger, that boredom or that loneliness.
I don't want to feel that way. The brain has trained itself to say go hit the reset button of ejaculation. So go and think about some sexual content or some women that you've been with recently, or some women that you're courting, or, you know, just go on Instagram and, you know, look at. Be scantily clad bikini models with inspiring quotes or go watch porn and jerk off and you'll feel better, right?
Because it will release some dopamine and it will avert your consciousness away from what you're actually feeling in that moment, [00:44:00] which is anxious, bored, lonely, et cetera. So if you want to. Get past this. The key to it is learning how to regulate your body and identify what you're experiencing that you're trying to get away from, right?
Cause again, when, when we climax, when we orgasm, your body releases a whole bunch of feel good neuro chemicals like oxytocin and dopamine and prolactin that make you feel relaxed and make you feel good and put you into a more. What's called parasympathetic state or a more relaxed dominant state. So in order to get away from that, every time, and this is what I recommend for guys who are wanting to quit porn.
Every time you want to watch porn, pause, set a timer for five minutes, close your eyes, take some deep breaths, breathe, and ask yourself the question. What am I experiencing right now that I have not been wanting to feel? Or what am I experiencing right now that I'm trying to get away [00:45:00] from? Okay. And then continue to breathe and see if you can just let that energy, that emotion, that experience pass because it will pass and learning to build some tolerance for being bored, being lonely, being anxious, feeling angry is a part of the equation.
The reason why a lot of men continue to turn towards hypersexual thinking or constant pornography is that it helps them skip all the steps that are necessary for building tolerance. And so you don't have to build tolerance for your anxiousness. You don't have to build tolerance for your boredom or your loneliness or your sadness or your grief or any of those things.
You don't have to build any tolerance for them because you have this external tool that just helps you. Hit the reset button and all of a sudden you feel better, right? And so you have to be able to build some tolerance. So pause, set a timer, close your [00:46:00] eyes, take some deep breaths for four or five minutes and see if you can let that experience pass, but become aware of what you're feeling in the first place, because.
The men that I've guided through this, and there've been thousands of men that have gone through this process, they all say the same thing, eight to nine times out of 10, they're not aroused. They're feeling something else that they don't want to feel. They're feeling bored. They're feeling anxious.
They're feeling angry. They're feeling frustrated. They're feeling super stressed out or overwhelmed, and they just don't know how to deal with that. And so that's what you actually need to learn how to deal with is the experience that you're trying to get away from with the over sexualized thinking and pornography.
Kirsten Trammell: Wow. And as you've been describing this, I, years ago, there's this book called indistractable written by this researcher near y'all. And he talked about this, how underneath all of the things that we use to distract ourselves is a primary emotion that we're ultimately trying to get away [00:47:00] from, but I never thought about it.
And that was more like work, like staying indistractable so you can like work well, but this, I never thought about it in the sense of pornography and sex.
Connor Beaton: Yeah. Me, the last thing I'd say real quick is so many of us live in a hyper stressed out state. We wake up, check emails, you know, go have coffee, go into work. And so you just in this stressed out dominant state throughout the day. And most people don't know the tools or the resources, breathing techniques, meditation techniques, yoga techniques to get out of that stress state.
What it's called D D D escalate. Oh my gosh. I just lost the word it's called. Downregulating, there we go. Downregulating your nervous system from that stressed out state to a more parasympathetic dominant state, which is a more rested state. And so instead of using just simple tools, breathwork, yoga, meditation, et cetera, [00:48:00] working out cold plunges, cold showers, people use these external tools like.
Booze or weed or porn, and that suffices for tricking our mind and body to pretending that it's in a relaxed state when most of the time it's not right. It's still stressed out. It's just released some feel good chemicals that help us to alleviate the symptom. I
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Okay. I know that we barely scratched the surface on many things and I'm getting the sense that you have basically all of the answers to everything. But is there anything that we haven't talked about that you feel passionate to address or share?
Connor Beaton: I mean, I would just encourage men to find resources that resonate with them, you know, and to be relentless with that. I think, yeah, just be relentless with that. Find the resources. Don't be afraid to reach out to people. I think those, those types of things are [00:49:00] really helpful. And, and I've been there, you know, I struggle, everything that I talked about today, I struggled with.
I struggled with. Like a pretty bad porn addiction, infidelity, lying, lacking confidence. You know, it's like all of those things are, are skills that you can learn to develop impulse controls, a skill that you can learn to develop confidence and connection and deep intimacy. Sexually in the bedroom is a skill that you can learn to develop, right?
All of those things are skills. And so I would just say, find the places and spaces and teachers that you can learn those skills because they're competencies that your life will benefit from.
Kirsten Trammell: Amazing. Connor, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing all of what you know.
Connor Beaton: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much.