How To Save A Sexless Marriage
Are you having less sex in your relationship than you want?
In this episode, Kirsten talks with Kate Shelor, a renowned hypnotherapist, about sexless relationships: why this happens and how to start having more sex again!
Tune in to learn the underlying issues that lead to a decrease in sexual intimacy within couples, the impact of responsive desire, and practical strategies to rebuild passion with your girl. Whether you're in a relationship facing these challenges or are interested in preventive measures, this episode is packed with insights and advice on maintaining a fulfilling sexual relationship.
Key Topics:
00:00 Navigating the Complexities of Sexless Relationships
02:24 Understanding Sexless Relationships: Definitions and Perceptions
04:14 The Underlying Issues of Sexlessness and Strategies for Reconnection
11:29 Responsive vs. Spontaneous Desire: Bridging the Gap in Intimacy
18:08 Practical Steps to Rekindle Intimacy and Break Negative Cycles
23:02 Reconnecting Through Intimacy Without the Pressure of Sex
28:32 Incorporating Newness and Excitement: Preventative Measures Against Sexlessness
29:37 Exploring New Dimensions of Intimacy: The Concept of Sex Lab
31:02 Exploring Playfulness and Discovery in Intimacy
31:51 The Joy of Experimentation: Sex Lab Adventures
37:14 Embracing Self-Love and Masturbation
38:49 Unpacking Subconscious Patterns in Relationships
40:30 The Power of Hypnotherapy in Sexual Wellness
46:05 Understanding and Overcoming Erection Challenges
52:02 Leveraging Brain Science for Better Sexual Experiences
Connect with Kate Shelor
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kateshelor/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kateshelor3?lang=en
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Visit https://www.thenakedconnection.com/bdsm-checklist and get your FREE Kink/BDSM checklist.
Manifest your deepest desires!
Visit https://www.thenakedconnection.com/sexmagic and get your FREE Sex Magic guided practice to discover how to use your sexual energy to manifest anything you want.
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Could your relationship become sexless or is it already there? Research shows that 15 to 20% of marriages are considered sexless, meaning that within the last 12 months you've only had sex 10 times or less. And the last thing that I want is for you to become one of those couples. And if you are right now, We're going to get you out of that sexless cycle and immediately. In this episode, we are going to tackle ways to have more sex and the sexless cycle that you might be in and make sure that you never end up sexless again.
To have this conversation. We have Kate Scheller onto the show today. She is a hypnotherapist who specializes in helping men and couples.
On having great sex and. More of it. You guys. Let's get some. [00:01:00]
Kirsten Trammell: Kate Sheeler, welcome to the Naked Connection. So excited to have you here.
Kate Shelor: thank you so much. I'm excited too.
Kirsten Trammell: And, thinking about all of the work that you do and the conversation that we're about to have, if someone wants to find this. Episode. Why should they listen to it?
Kate Shelor: That's a great question. We discussed previously about getting into this topic of sexless marriages or sexless relationships. And I think it's a really important topic to dive into because I think it affects a lot of people.
And so I'm really excited to talk about it today. This is something that men reach out to me to ask me advice about almost more than any other topic. And so I do think that there is often a disconnect in relationships about the amount, I'm putting that in quotes, of sex that people are having and [00:02:00] what they, between what they're having and what they want.
And even if you are not in a sexless marriage yourself, I think that there are a lot of really important lessons and ideas to improve any relationship that are under the umbrella of this topic.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess my first question is in regards to Thinking about like having enough sex like in quotes is this like what is like considered sexless and I know I was finding some research that was saying like if you have sex less than 12 times a year or something like that, then it's considered a sexless marriage or relationship.
So what I guess, what do most people think of when they think that they're in a relationship that doesn't have any sex?
Kate Shelor: This is hard for me to give a, a number, but what I will say is that often when you talk to a couple [00:03:00] separately, you really do find A difference in how they define the right amount of sex, for example. And this is, you know, this is not, there's always exceptions, but generally you'll see something like men saying, we hardly have any sex.
We have sex like once a week. And you'll have a woman say, we have sex like all the time. We have sex like once a week. And. So it's not necessarily, I, I often see that people look at the same information in two different ways, and I think that's the very first thing to establish with people is, how much sex are you having?
Do you agree on what's happening? And then do you think of that as, A reasonable amount or not enough or too much. And because people obviously come into it with their own personality and life experience, and they don't always see that in the [00:04:00] same way. In fact, many times they see it completely differently.
And I think that's where a lot of the complications begin.
Kirsten Trammell: My gosh. Yeah. Someone's we have sex all the time. Once a week. We never have sex. And it's once a week. Yeah. That makes so much sense. So sounds like figuring out what it actually looks like to have a fulfilling sex life in terms of how often are we having sex and what does that look like?
Kate Shelor: Those conversations are the jumping off point to the, to that side of the work, which is. Understanding how your partner views the sex you're having or not having, right? What is the lens they see it through? And that doesn't mean that either one of them is right or wrong, but the conversation between them has to start with some understanding that you see the same thing differently that you may see it differently.
And The other issue that I think people have when they get into trying to solve this issue is they [00:05:00] try to attack the issue at a surface level. Can agree to have sex twice a week, right? And they attack it as like a goal.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm
Kate Shelor: going to have sex twice a week. The problem with that in most cases is that the issue driving The let's say and some people are not truly are not having sex not everybody is having once a week sex Many people are not having sex in the relationship or if they do it's once or twice a year
Kirsten Trammell: Wow.
Kate Shelor: you know and after lots and lots of hounding or something like that, you know, like for many people it truly is So I don't want to, I don't want to devalue that in this conversation because for many people that is the case.
They're very much isolated from each other in a relationship. And when you try to say things like, okay, can you agree to have sex once a week or twice a week? The [00:06:00] problem with that is that doesn't actually solve what is driving that outcome. What's underneath that, what's happening in the relationship and with yourselves.
Because that's what you have to deal with. When you deal with the amount of sex you're having, it becomes a job, it becomes an obligation, and that's not sexy. And, you know, women don't want to feel obligated, that's one of the issues that many women have. And men don't want to feel like their partner is obligated to have sex with them.
This is, I see a lot of people try to solve it on a very practical level like that, but it often leads to failure and more alienation from each other.
Kirsten Trammell: so it's like the sexlessness isn't I mean, it's a problem, but it's not like the problem. It's the result of a deeper problem.
Kate Shelor: And that problem varies, of course, from couple to couple. And [00:07:00] it's typically not just about the couple. It's also typically there's work to be done as individuals. But the why is the most important question, not the how much. And those are really tough conversations to have for everybody, right? And this is why a lot of people would benefit from finding a sex positive couples therapist.
And I say that, I mean that very specifically to really look for somebody who says they are sex positive. And, B and somebody that even people that say that they, you know, there are therapists who deals with BDSM and is kink friendly. Even if you are not kinky, that's a good sign that that therapist is comfortable talking about sex as well as all other aspects of therapy and is comfortable with [00:08:00] sexual issues, negotiation, consent, all of those things.
It is a very essential and basic part. of us as people. And so it, of course, is a reason a lot of people need therapy and want therapy.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
I, yeah, my, my thought is just thinking about how can two people find themselves so far apart from one another? I mean, I personally am not married, so I don't know, like over long periods of time after being with someone, what that would be like, but to go and then it's almost like I would imagine you wake up one day and you're like, oh, it's been six months since we've had sex.
Like, how does that happen? Yeah.
Yeah.
Kate Shelor: I think that it happens It's, it's a process, right? It doesn't, it doesn't just happen usually unless there is, you know, somebody it cheats and there's a big issue and the other partner shuts them out. That is [00:09:00] a different scenario, but for many people. It happens over time and for many people at the beginning of their relationship, they were sexual and intimate, but , it's always important if you're in a relationship where there isn't sex to ask yourself some questions,
what is our relationship like intimately? And I don't mean sexually, How is the friendship? Is there resentment about not just sex, but other things? How is the division of the domestic labor? How, how do I feel about my body? Am I healthy? Am I feeling confident? What about my partner? Are they struggling with stress?
Hormones, depression, weight gain, domestic labor, are they exhausted? Because as you start to kind of peel back the layers of the onion, there are a [00:10:00] lot of factors that often affect people's sexuality as individuals. One of them is kids. Right? You get a bunch of kids and maybe you have a job or maybe you have to, you're doing all the housework and the cleaning and the cooking.
That's not sexy. That's exhausting and you're not dressed up nice and you typically don't have your makeup on. And, and studies are showing that the more equal the division of the domestic labor, the more sex people are having in their relationship. Yeah, so that is something I always ask, you know, even if you're like I make the money and I work.
So this is her job. That's how a lot of people end up. But let's just say maybe that's maybe that's how you feel. And maybe that's the agreement. Maybe it's not working for your partner. And. Can you compromise on this you want your partner to feel more collected and put together and calm [00:11:00] to have the mind, you know, the space to switch over into a sexual version of herself, even if you think she should be doing 100 percent of the domestic labor, can you compromise on that, you know, in order to do something that helps your relationship, but often domestic labor is an issue.
People also are different in how their sexuality engages. People are all very different. Most men, though not all men, experience spontaneous sexual desire, right? So they are able to feel sexual, to get aroused with very little. You know, they can have a thought, they can just decide, Ooh, I have a few minutes, we could have sex right now and almost very instantly be ready.
Most women, but not all, most women experience [00:12:00] responsive sexual desire. And most women don't know this. And this leads to so much shame and a lot of women really struggle because they simply do not know that this is how most women are and it's normal. So responsive sexual desire, I know you're shaking your head, that is essentially that it takes some kind of stimulation.
physical stimulation in order to feel sexual desire. And so what that often looks like is a man is like, Hey, do you want to have sex right now? And the woman is no, I mean, I'm in my sweats or this or that, and you're just, you're not turned on. And so what happens is The man feels rejected and the woman feels like I'm never in the mood, right?
And that can lead to a belief [00:13:00] system that you just simply Don't have it anymore, right? And the truth is, is that most women who do experience responsive sexual desire actually need to be put in the mood in order to be in the mood. And that can look like a couple of different things. You know, that can look like setting an actual mood.
As in, taking a little bit of time to switch gears. Right from, hey, I'm at home, I'm working or whatever to make the bed, put some lights on, take a shower, put on something nice, to actual stimulation like masturbate, touch yourself for a little bit, use a toy, and then you're like, I'm not really in the mood, but I'll use this toy, and then you're like, oh, maybe I am.
That is actually very, very normal or watch a porn or whatever. So because people just, the [00:14:00] majority of people just don't know this, they get locked in a cycle and the cycle is so destructive to both of them. Because the woman feels I'm just never in the mood anymore. I don't know why I don't desire sex.
And the man's my wife never wants sex. And she turns me down all the time. And that alone can be that fork in the road that starts to drive the two people apart. And understand that if you are not automatically in the mood, spontaneously. That that is a healthy, that is normal, healthy sexuality. You just probably have responsive desire.
And by helping people understand this, that is something people can work on. I know that a lot of people really struggle and it's part of this responsive desire a little bit, but really struggle to switch gears. I'm one of those people. I, you know, wear a lot of hats, so I'm, you know, I'm working or I've got family and I've got [00:15:00] things to do or cleaning, I don't switch gears very.
Easily. I'm a sexual person, but I, I really need a conscious shift. I need to do those things. I need to stop and sort of get in the head space. And that takes some, a little bit of effort on my part. I need to maybe put on some music, put on some lingerie or take a bath or take shower or do something that helps me get into the mindset of sex and sexuality.
And if you just approach me and I'm doing the ditches, I'm not spontaneously in the mood, but that doesn't mean I don't want to have sex with my partner, but I know about responsive desire. So I don't feel, I don't, I'm not upset with myself or with my partner. I understand it. He understands. And that's been a very useful tool for our relationship.[00:16:00]
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. I could see that working so well, both ways of understanding each other, I would say I'm responsive. I understand that I have to take responsibility for myself and take action to put myself in that state with a partner. And then at the same time, helpful for them to understand, Oh, this isn't necessarily just automatically about me.
And I'm not just being rejected right away. This is kind of the dynamic of, Sex sometimes with people. So having that awareness could really help. Okay. So now we, I'm just thinking let's say someone's listening and they're like, Oh, I'm catching on to this. I think my partner's probably responsive.
It takes her a while to get into the mood. Where do we go from there?
Kate Shelor: There's a lot of conversations to be had, of course. Having this conversation, which is I was listening to this thing and this is what they were saying. And I just, it was, this was new to me and I'm not putting on pressure, but I, I'm curious to know what you think about this. Does this feel like you, do you feel [00:17:00] like this resonates when you, and I always tell people do not have these conversations in bed.
A lot of people make the mistake of advancing on someone in bed. And then they say no or I have a headache or I'm tired and then you want to talk about why you're not having sex and it is or you haven't had sex and you just bring it up while you're laying in bed. It feels like a high pressure situation and it's always best to have those kind of any kind of serious relationship conversation in a neutral space when moods are generally positive and conversation is flowing.
You know, because how you speak about something is almost just as important as what you're saying. So it is really, I try to not do that in the bedroom. But these conversations are so important to find out, does this resonate with your partner? And if it does you can do a few practical things.
If your partner is, is Oh, that makes a lot of [00:18:00] to me. One of them is scheduling sex. And some people think that's not sexy. I think it's, for me, really sexy. Because, A, we both pick a time that makes sense, and then, which can be fun for us, but B, If I know that I'm having sex Thursday afternoon when no one is in the house and we have an hour, I can do the things I need to do to be ready.
I'm like, okay, I take a shower that morning. I maybe put a little extra effort in. I think about it. We can do some flirting. There can be some sexting, some Working together to kind of like get yourself to that point taking responsibility for your own sexuality You can learn how to do that and your partner can give you the space to do that Right, and so I think scheduling sex is a really a wonderful tool for busy [00:19:00] people and even just little things like can give your partner signals we have in our bedside tables on both of them.
We have lamps that have color changing labels and we have a little thing. So we like to set them. So if I set them on red, it's like a little flirty signal. Like sometimes I'll even take a picture of it and send it with the red light on because the red light, that's what that is. Right. And for me, that helps start my process as well.
I'm like, that is part of that mental shift. Right. That helps. And, and it's fun. People often forget to have fun, you know, as you get busy and life gets stressful and sex also should be, and can be fun, right. And recreational and flirty. And so looking for opportunities to do that, hanging a pair of panties on the door handle, if you don't have [00:20:00] family.
You know, doing little things, taking a flirty picture and sending it to your partner, incorporating more flirting and sexting over text message. Doesn't have to be photos that, you know, if you're not comfortable sending photos, but incorporating more of that into your everyday dynamic and physical touch.
A lot of people just stop kind of each other. And this it's are you holding hands? Are you rubbing backs? Are you giving a kiss? Are you doing any of those things? The flip side of that is a lot of times I hear people say things like, I don't do a lot of kissing and touching anymore because every time I do, my partner makes them move for sex and then I feel hounded and they're, they feel like they're not getting that intimacy, that connection, romance, because every time they advance a little, their partner tries to open the [00:21:00] door all the way.
So they don't want to do it at all. I see this. a lot. And that, that is the next thing that sort of, I think is important, which is breaking these cycles when it comes to no sex.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: You know, so a lot of men are like we have sex once a month. So at, or, you know, she says yes, one out of every 10 times that I ask her.
So if I want to have more sex, I need to ask her a hundred times. That's sort of what happens at least subconsciously for a lot of men.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: Right. And a lot of women, And it's like the more they feel pressured, the less they want to do it. And you can see how this becomes a vicious cycle
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: that just causes a huge amount of resentment.
And so that's why I talk about not having sex on purpose.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm
[00:22:00] mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: if you are at the point in your relationship where that cycle is happening,
that's a signal that that you're broken, but that you're in a very unhelpful dynamic right now for both of you. And pressure is not sexy, so it's easy to understand why being pressured.
And often, again, women are feeling like maybe that they aren't romantically appreciated enough, so that when their husband is going for sex and hounding for sex, they feel like an object,
Kirsten Trammell: Mm.
Kate Shelor: sex object. And men are like I just hate being rejected and I'm being rejected so much I'm asking. And then eventually I'm just going to give up altogether and stop asking because I don't want to be rejected.
And that's, so that's this cycle that is very hurtful for both parties. I think if you're willing to do some work with your partner and your partner is also willing taking sex off the table for a determined amount of time can be very, very helpful. [00:23:00] So it's okay. On week one, backing up, you do, you know, you have conversations about that sort of friendship and romantic intimacy and physical touch, incorporating that into your everyday life again, without going for sex.
So touching each other, letting your wife touch you and give you a kiss and you kiss her and you engage without trying to move it forward
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: to build that trust. And to build that connection again, because yes, sex is maybe you're not having enough sex, but most likely there's a lot of other things. You're not getting either that romantic and intimate connection, right?
That physical touch the, the flirtiness, the appreciation for each other. That's probably not there either because that typically leads to sex. So it's. Rebonding and you're basically saying to your [00:24:00] partner. I'm not going to try for sex. That's my for these for this month I'm not going to go for it You really have to stick to that but your partner is also willing to engage with you Physically and you're you're making that agreement that trust agreement to build that bridge again And it's like on week one.
Maybe you say you schedule a day for you know The husband to give the wife a massage, a really nice massage. Even if you don't know what you're doing, you can watch a YouTube video. Even if you don't know what you're doing and you don't watch a
Kirsten Trammell: be great. Still. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Shelor: You'll break because it's not really the point The point is make a nice night for your partner get some oil touch their body Make them feel good and relaxed and touched but do not make do not push for sex Do not take that next step.
It is all about building that [00:25:00] Physical connection that bridge again and then the next week she gives you one She connects with you and makes you feel good and appreciated and talk about it. How does that feel? Have you missed that? Looking for ways? That's why I talk about taking sex off the table, take a month to, and I do absolutely believe when you're doing this and making agreements like that, because everybody has to be accountable, you know, in order for anything to move forward.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: And then when you start to build that bond again and, Build that connection and have those conversations. You can start to move forward. Maybe you say for week three that you just do some making out right? And another fun thing is when you just make out, but you neither one of you was allowed to take it under the clothes or whatever it almost.
As soon as you can't do something, you typically want to do it. You know, [00:26:00] it's just how the mind works. You know, you're making out, you know, you're not going to have sex so you can get really, really into it. And then you'll find yourself thinking like, Oh, like what if he's going to go to third base, that would feel really good.
And then when you can break that away, you add in that flirty dynamic, you create that sense of desire again. You, but you do it within this little safety bubble of stopping short of having sex so that you guys can actually reconnect on all those other levels.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like decoupling those intimate moments and that type of physical connection from sex , yeah. Because otherwise, and I feel like even. This is , making me think about my own personal experiences, , even in the beginning stages of dating with someone, you're making out and things are starting to happen and you're like, wait, wait, wait, no, I'm not in that state yet.
So even thinking about practicing it and that kind of newness within a relationship to have and it's also kind of [00:27:00] fun to just be a little kid, high school kids and make out again and be like, are you going to touch my boob? I don't know. You know?
Kate Shelor: it is. It is. It, it, it can be a really wonderful way to reconnect. Some excitement anytime you know when you like you said when you first get into that relationship You're either like i'm not ready yet or you're like I don't want to go too far ruin this relationship So you're like holding back, but you really want to those are really wonderful feelings to reconnect with and And they can really help you get back to where you started, but also to get you back to desiring something.
Because if you have responsive desire and you're being touched and you're being kissed and you guys are making out and you're having some fun, you're, but you were like, but I can't have sex. It really can help you reignite with that desire.
And you'll never ever, you know, no partner that you've been with for a long time is [00:28:00] ever going to feel exactly like a brand new person.
However, you can have fun in this way, reconnect in this way and, and rekindle some sense of newness and excitement, because let's face it, that can be hard, right? And so even if you aren't in a sexless relationship, can you incorporate some of this Can you incorporate more of this newness and put the lights beside your bed and think about touching more and reconnecting.
Absolutely. Can you talk about giving your partner a massage and getting one back without having sex just to make your partner feel good? Would that be good for your relationship? Probably. So I think the lessons when we talk about reconnecting on a, in a sexless relationship are just as important for people who are having sex.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it almost makes me think these are some of the things that, [00:29:00] to just get in the habit of practicing with your partner, almost for one, it's amazing to do all these things. And also it's like preventative. It helps keep things from ending in that, going down that path of becoming sexless, of no longer touching each other, no longer being connected, intimate, all of those things.
Yeah.
Kate Shelor: Absolutely. And I, another thing that this isn't really for sexless relationships, but just talking about ways that couples who've been together for a long time can kind of do new things. There is a, a concept. I wish I could remember her name. I'm going to have to find out. There was somebody years ago that I heard talking about this idea of sex lab.
And. It's something that I've done myself and have had a lot of fun with in my relationship. But Sex Lab is this idea that you essentially set aside some time, it could be 30 minutes, with your partner, where you're going to try something sexual, but with [00:30:00] no goal of like orgasm or anything. You're, it's like you're two scientists.
And you set a time period, it doesn't have to be sexy, and you just try something new and see if you like it or if you don't like it, without the pressure of a full sexual scenario. So we, I had had an experience with my husband, where I got really wet and like really, really wet. And I was like, why am I so wet?
And he was like, I think you were squirting and but I was on top and we were in the back of a car. It was a whole thing. And and I was like, oh, I didn't think I could squirt. So a couple of weeks later, cause we were still talking about that. Yeah. Of course, he was like, he never stopped thinking about that.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: We decided we were like, let's do the sex lab thing. And we put down our little sex blanket that we have. And we did it just like that. It was not, it was just super casual and [00:31:00] playful. I laid on the bed, he got some lube and he was like, let's see, put his glasses on. And we, he tried a few different things, tried some things like, what about this?
How does this feel? What about this? Let's try the Spider Man. And We just, and I was like, yeah, I know. Oh, you know what? Maybe. And then we just played around in a very exploratory fashion.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm.
Kate Shelor: And we actually did find some A couple of tricks that got me to squirt. And it was, we were laughing. It was during the day.
It was just a very We just had fun and it wasn't like a super hot sex session if that makes sense and every once in a blue moon we do sex lab and we try a new toy like I got some male sex toys
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm.
Kate Shelor: because there's a whole world of toys for men and I think There's men just typically haven't really
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: gotten to play with many toys.
So I always get them when I see them. And we were like, [00:32:00] let's try that one. And one of them went horribly wrong. It was like a one that's like an automatic, like you, it's got a silicone sleeve and a big hard shell
Kirsten Trammell: Huh.
Kate Shelor: this in it, but then it like, it jerks it off, but it was like a little too small or and it was like, not comfortable.
We were laughing, it did not feel good, but just that experience, it didn't matter that it didn't feel good. We had a great time. We were laughing, we were connecting, we were being very comfortable with our sexuality, and those things are just very healthy for any relationship.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm. I love this. It's I don't know why when you're, I'm like, I have this vision of wearing like a lab coat and glasses and it's like very sexy and also playful, but yeah, of, of, yeah. I mean, I would imagine in order to be in a place of doing that, you'd have to be comfortable with yourself and with your partner.
And, and if not what a great way [00:33:00] to practice becoming comfortable with each other. And, and yeah, I love, I love the idea of experimenting because then there isn't that pressure to like, try the new toy or position or idea or concept, like in a really intimate space. steamy environment. You can just have fun and experiment and see what works.
Kate Shelor: Yeah, and what the thing about sex lab that's different than a sexual encounter I think is the pressure for it to be successful. So a lot of people struggle It's you know If you're in the middle of sex and your partner's doing something to you and it actually isn't working a lot of people feel Uncomfortable telling them
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: like do you like that baby?
And you're like, mm hmm, but you
Kirsten Trammell: And you're like, no. Yeah.
Kate Shelor: you feel bad, right? Because it feels like you're letting them down.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. And you don't
want to destroy the mood. You're like, if I
say no, then it's just going to get weird. And we're out to, yeah. Yeah. [00:34:00] Okay.
Kate Shelor: can I misdirect it in a new direction? Which is fine. That's a skill too. It's an important skill. However, sex lab is different. It's does this feel good? No. Try to the left. Oh, maybe, right? That, the environment is very different. In sex lab than it is in a sexual encounter.
And I think that is very empowering when it comes to being direct about your communications and learning each other's bodies, because you're basically, you're not trying to achieve a goal and you're not putting your own. Emotions on the line. You're just playing around and seeing what feels good. It's like I always laugh because I don't do like hand jobs very often at some point I don't know you just don't do them anymore and I got this book about that had like it was just a whole book of hand job [00:35:00] techniques and it was called something like tickle your pickle something It was actually, it's a great book.
And so I was like, let's the book because I don't feel like I don't have a good hand job and we kind of did a front slabby thing. I was like, what about this? And I would just try different techniques from the book. And he'd be like, eh, and then we try a different one.
He'd be like, that one feels really good. And it was fun. It was playful. It was low pressure, but I learned a whole lot more. Hey, I learned some techniques. Great. I learned some skills, but I also learned a lot more about what his penis likes. Right? I learned a lot more about pressure, and does he like get a long time on the head, or does he get too stimulated and too sensitive, and because I'm trying to, I learned a lot, and yet it wasn't like in the middle of a steamy sex session, where I'm like, Is this how you like it?
No, not well, you know, it wasn't,
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Shelor: [00:36:00] that it's like a separate time. And it was just really fun. And obviously in a relationship where things where you know each other so well, maybe, or you each have your blueprint, you're like, you know, exactly what the formula is for you to get your partner off.
And you know, his partner up, okay, we do this and this, and then we get in this position and that's the one, right? That's what happens. It's normal. So it's also fun to do things like get a book of positions or I have a playing card of positions, and we tried some and some were like terrifying. Honestly, they felt very dangerous.
We were like, you know, I'm going to fall. I'm going to repeat it. I'm going to get torn off. You know, we were laughing, but also it just, I don't know, mixes it up
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm. .Yeah. Yeah. And this is even making me think even if you're not in a relationship right now, that you can like almost do a sex lab on yourself. I'm such like an advocate of masturbation. I'm like,
everyone do it all the time because you learn so much [00:37:00] more about yourself and then you can take that information into your next sexual encounter.
But I love this sex lab.
Kate Shelor: I love the, and I love what you're saying about masturbation because I also am just a huge proponent of masturbation and I'm always shocked. And a little saddened to see how many people feel negatively about masturbation, feel that masturbation shouldn't exist in a relationship. And I, I also agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong.
There is no reason you can't sex lab on yourself. And I think it's the first. And most basic form of self love is, you know, masturbation. And it's the kind that doesn't ever leave you
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: or break up with you. It is a, it's, it's like the ultimate relationship that you'll have in your life and it's your body and you should have a wonderful, positive relationship with it, you know, or try to do the work to have that [00:38:00] because yeah, it's original form of.
Self love, right? Masturbation.
Kirsten Trammell: 100%. And okay. I know that you do a lot of work with hypnotherapy and the subconscious mind, and we could probably do like a whole other episode about that. But I'm just thinking in terms of this topic, topic of working through. Sex differences or sexless relationships of have you seen common, like subconscious patterns that lead to this?
Or is it very individualized for different people, or what kind of comes up in that space? Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: would say the, you know, the, the histories, the personal histories that kind of create patterns are all different, but the subconscious is always the same. With everyone, it sort of behaves in the same way. And you know, a lot of people talk about attachment styles. Right. [00:39:00] That's something a lot of people talk about, but that is essentially what we're really talking about is subconscious program, right?
That's what we're really talking about. And you know, it's if you were raised and you kind of see your, I'll give it, I'll give you this example. So if a child walks up to a hot stove and puts their hand on the hot stove and they burn it. Right. Right. They, their subconscious says Oh, you know, that hurts, that's hot, that hurts, but the subconscious is a, a learning machine and it makes associations.
That's what keeps us safe. When the child sees a fireplace with the fire burning and feels that heat, they don't need to touch the fire. Right? Their subconscious mind is their warehouse of memories and it says that's heat related that hurts, right? And so you don't touch that fire. The same thing happens often [00:40:00] Sexually.
It happens in every aspect of our life, but let's talk about it in terms of
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Mm-Hmm?
Kate Shelor: you know for me For example, what got me into hypnotherapy? No, I got into hypnotherapy independently, but I had always struggled with orgasms You My entire life and I could have them when I masturbated, but I was, you know, to have one with another person, even in the room was basically impossible for me.
And when I learned hypnosis, which I was just learning because I was curious, I was very curious about it and I was going to do it as a job. I didn't intend to change my own life with it, but that was the thing that doing the work on myself was the thing that finally helped me break through that. And I had tried.
I had gotten to the point where I just given up and I was like, Oh, this is just me. This is how I am. And [00:41:00] so when I learned hypnotherapy, that's what helped me have that breakthrough. And I was like, Oh, I want to talk about this. Because at first I was talking about your typical things, weight loss, smoking, all the things people do.
And then I was like, I don't see any hypnotherapist talking about sex, which is wild. Because our relationship with other people, with our bodies, with our sexuality, is a highly emotional experience. And it, you know, and we, we are guided by our past. Right? So I had experienced, I had been assaulted years before, and I felt like I was over it, like I was a, I would say, a highly functioning person, and so I believed that I was fine, and it didn't make any sense to me, because I was like I think sex is good.
I get that. [00:42:00] I think I should have an orgasm with another person. That's what I thought consciously. And so I realized that what I had was an issue that was subconscious, right? And when you have an issue that is When you believe something in your conscious mind, your logical, critical thinking mind, but you have a driving emotion, something in your subconscious that's in conflict with it.
For me, it was orgasms are good and positive. Sex is good versus that is heat related. You know, that was me. I was the child. Oh, sex, that hurts. That's bad, right? That was what I had going subconsciously. And when you have the conflict, you can, you know, guess which one wins. It's the one that drives our emotions, right?
Which is why you can't just start a TED talk and it's you know, being healthy is not healthy. Awesome. And you're like, you're right. If that doesn't
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: change, [00:43:00] wish you could just be like, yes,
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: and that was it. But the what's really happening is you have this whole history that has created these emotional drivers in your subconscious mind.
And that's what's driving your behavior. Not your, not your, you know, thoughts. And so is where hypnosis and hypnotherapy really is a great tool. It is not the only tool. We'll say that it is not the only tool and you have to find the one that works for you. But why hypnotherapy works for me was that it was able to do the work I was able to work in the subconscious where the behaviors originated where my history is where my emotional drivers are.
I was able to do the work on that emotional level and that's why I was able to create, create change when you go to talk therapy, typically the real change in the shifts happen when there's some sort of [00:44:00] emotional breakthrough and that usually happens when there's some kind of tears or some kind of, not always, but often there is some sort of emotional change.
Emotional shift
Kirsten Trammell: mm-Hmm?
Kate Shelor: and that's what starts the change, but you could talk for two years you don't get into that deeper emotional place and not, and you can talk, talk, talk, and you can be like, I know why I have a problem. You know, I know why I feel shame about my body. I know why I, you know, my, this is how I was raised.
But knowing why and being able to understand it on a, you know, logical level is not the same as being able to change it on an emotional level.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: And you know, people come into these relationships with their past and their subconscious mind worked the same way. It just obviously has different outcomes depending on how you were raised.
Many people really struggle with [00:45:00] sexuality because of Cultural shame in their upbringing,
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: whether it be their, you know, their religious groups or a lot of people just, and so it is very hard in a relationship to have these conversations to do sex lab, right? Even many people, it's you know, if I go out and I put on a costume and I get a sex toy.
At this point in my life, that's fun and I feel good about that. But for many people, that same experience would make them feel dirty
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: and shameful and embarrassed and, you know, they would have all of these feelings. And so that's sort of where I've tried to help educate people and help them understand the process, what's going on a lot of people, men, for example, a lot of men struggle with erection,
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: it's maintaining an erection, getting an erection and there can be strictly physiological issues going on.[00:46:00]
You always have to talk to your doctor. That is one thing, but in many cases there are emotional subconscious issues going on and a lot of men feel broken. Because they feel like their penis isn't working right and they don't feel like a man and they feel broken. And one thing I find so important to explain to men is that it's actually the opposite.
So when, you know, if you're gonna have sex and let's say you lose your erection one day, which you can lose because of so many things. You know, you're a bit stressed. You're a bit tired. You're a little dehydrated, whatever it is. Okay. You can have 10, 000 positive sexual experiences, but you have that one negative sexual experience and it triggers an emotional response.
You're like oh, do I have a problem? Right. That I disappointed her. I, you know, I have, oh my God, maybe I can't get it up, whatever it is. You have this [00:47:00] and that, that emotion triggers a physical response,
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: which then validates the belief system that you have a problem, because if you start thinking those thoughts.
You start to feel those negative emotions. That isn't sexy. Not sexy. Of course, your penis isn't going to get hard when you're like, Oh God, right? I can't get it up. I disappointed her. She's looking at me. That's a highly emotional experience. And of course, it's not going to trigger a rock hard erection.
It's going to trigger, you know, it's going to try to get you out of the situation. That's a terrible, scary situation. You're going to have a soft penis and your penis is not going to be turned on and you're, and then, but that validates, you're like, see, I can't, I still can't get it up. And then you strengthen that subconscious belief system.
But then the next time you have [00:48:00] sex, you've now set an expectation. Don't fail, right?
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: get soft. Don't let her down. Are those sexy feelings and thoughts.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: And so then you have the problem again, and now you really believe that this is the new you, right? And a lot of men feel broken, but in fact, they're not broken, they're working exactly.
How they should be working. It's just that you need to, it's not working in your favor, right? And so now it's like understanding that how your subconscious works, I think is a very powerful, it's like understanding you have responsive desire for women. Just understanding how it works is a very powerful beginning to breaking the cycle because you know what you expect to happen tends to be realized.
So when you expect By saying, I hope I don't lose my erection or [00:49:00] whatever. You're really saying, I hope I don't fail, right? Don't fail. That's what you're really saying. And so you are expecting to fail. And when you expect to fail, failure is much more likely and you get into the cycle. Whereas men who can say, Oh, I had a bad day the other day.
No biggie. I've had 10, 000 good days. I've had way more good days. That's a very different mindset and a very different way of responding to the exact same situation. And it's one that doesn't trigger that response.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm-Hmm.
Kate Shelor: You know, I would say if you had two different Tiger Woods, you know, Tiger Woods A and Tiger Woods B, and they both have the exact same history, the exact same training and skills, and if you have, you know, Tiger Woods A is hey, I feel good.
I've trained for this. I do this every day, right? You've got this. You got him. [00:50:00] Tiger Woods B is don't fuck up. Don't fail. Like you did that other time. Don't do that again. Which one do you think is more likely to win or to do well?
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: Right? We all know it's the first one and their skills are the same and the reality is There's no reason Tiger Woods B should have problems, you know, just because of his training.
But he probably will because he's highly focused on the failures and the probability and the what ifs and the negatives. And that will affect his game.
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: And most people can understand that about others. And so I really try to help men understand that about themselves. And so breaking that cycle, understanding you're not broken, you're working how you're supposed to work.
It's just not working in your favor right now
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah.
Kate Shelor: and learning to set different expectations, taking it and go let me focus [00:51:00] on all the times I've had successes. And even if you've only ever had, what if your success is, When you're masturbating, but you struggle with your partner. I hear that all the time, too Let's put the focus on your successes and build a bridge Start masturbating with your partner teach your partner how to masturbate with you watch porn together start to build the bridges on your success and you can go so much further than when you just focus on on the what ifs of the failure You're just setting yourself up to fail
Kirsten Trammell: Yeah. Wow. Our brains are so wild and wonderful at the same time, and I think the more we can understand how they work and why they work the way they do, it becomes easier to actually use that in, in our favor.
Yeah.
Kate Shelor: It's a, it's a, it's a tool that once you understand, and also you can just take some of that shame [00:52:00] off of yourself
Kirsten Trammell: Mm
Kate Shelor: when you understand like, Oh, like I'm not actually broken, I'm just, you know, I'm just not, I'm thinking about really unsavvy things, you know? And that's, and I'm Oh, okay. I can start to make that shift.
I understand that. And that alone, because a lot of men, you know, with. with erections. It's not just something that's happening to them physically, it's happening emotionally
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm.
Kate Shelor: and it's happening how they feel about themselves as men.
Kirsten Trammell: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I would imagine shifting the emotional experience to, within those bad experiences would reframe how our brain recalls them or re experiences them or perceives them moving forward. Yeah. Oh my
goodness. Okay, Kate, thank you so much for sharing all of this. I know that there's so much more that we didn't totally get to dive into, but I would love if people want to either work with you or just experience more of you, [00:53:00] where can they find you?
Kate Shelor: mean, the best place is my Instagram. It has all of my links there. So that is at Kate Sheeler, K A T E S H E L O R. Absolutely.
Kirsten Trammell: Thank you so much for being here and sharing so much about having sex, full relationships. I don't know if that's a word, but we're going to go with it. Yeah.
Kate Shelor: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:54:00]